Shippable Australian juice

Discussion in 'General Wine Making Forum' started by heatherd, Apr 29, 2018.

Help Support Winemaking Talk by donating using the link above.
  1. Mike Blicke

    Mike Blicke Junior

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    4
    I also purchased a pail of Chenin Blanc from these guys. Pitched the yeast yesterday. I love Chenin Blanc, so I'm hopeful that I get some good results. 22 Brix.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    Ajmassa5983 and heatherd like this.
  2. heatherd

    heatherd Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    786
    Yep, for the cab sauv - I had planned to order a bucket of frozen must from juicegrape.com but they're out. So I grabbed a mosti mondiali grape pack for fermentation (http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/) and I'll likely blend with another Cabernet Sauvignon batch that I make in the fall from fresh grapes/juice. I'm going to use RC212, some tannins/oak dust in primary, and 2 American oak medium toast spirals during aging to get nice oakiness to this batch. I'll co-inoculate the MLF with Viniflora Oenos (trying a new MLB).

    For the whites, I'm using D47.
     
  3. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    I was searching yesterday and found other grape packs I wasn't too sure about. Someone on this forum had mentioned this one before. Have you ordered one before? I'm trying to figure out the size of the pack. Can I use one for three buckets or should I order three grape packs? I just noticed they contain potassium metabisulfite.

    Going with BM4x4 on these and Ch16 MLB and will co-inoculate as well. I've used D47 on whites to good affect.
     
  4. heatherd

    heatherd Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    786
    I've only used the Mosti one, and it's pretty big. You could get two and split between three batches.
     
  5. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,146
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    I also used that grape pack before (at the recommendation of HeatherD )

    It’s about 9lbs of crushed grape must. If cost isn’t the deciding factor then I’d say get 1 pack for each bucket for sure.
    I used it on a 6gal Chilean juice pail that also contained a previous grape batch’s active skins. Solid grape pack, but If only getting one then personally I’d use it all in the same bucket instead of splitting.
    I like Heathers suggestion of Splitting 2 among 3 buckets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    pgentile and heatherd like this.
  6. heatherd

    heatherd Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    786
    Yep, the Mosti grape pack is big and nice-looking. One per bucket is good, but splitting two per three is okay, too. I have found them a few places online.
     
    pgentile likes this.
  7. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,146
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Likely just the bare minimum so it keeps. For perspective- the time I used this grape pack I also added active skins to the juice too. Active with both yeast and MLB. So the juice had ZERO time to bound up any sulphites to aid the malo.
    AF and MLF were unaffected. And kicked off quickly and finished quickly. Granted, active skins are likely stronger than a typical inoculation, but it shouldn’t be a concern at all.
     
    pgentile likes this.
  8. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    @heatherd and @Ajmassa5983 thanks for the info. Now to decide 2 or 3? Another $20 for a 3rd one with what I have invested is probably worth it. This will bring the per bottle cost to $5.33.
     
    heatherd likes this.
  9. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    The buckets arrived this afternoon from Presque Isles along with stuff from morewine. I asked for 3 packetss of BM4x4 with the buckets, I think they were .99, well three packets came with 2 packets of BM4x4, 1 Super Ferment, 1 FT Rouge and 1 Gorferm in each. So now I have FT Rouge and Tannin Riche Extra along with med american oak chips. Not sure if any of this is redundant in the tannin realm. Guess I'm going to have to deep read on tannin in the next few days.

    BM4x4-FP, I guess the "FP" is Fermentation Pack? It says "On day 2, add Super Ferment slowly". Not sure if I should pour slowly or move slowly. I'll probably not use it.

    Looking forward to getting these going, just need to wait for the grape packs to get here.

    IMG_20180711_165636768_HDR_1689_1.jpg
     
    heatherd, ceeaton and Ajmassa5983 like this.
  10. ceeaton

    ceeaton Three is the charm, right?

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    4,024
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Location:
    Southern PA
    Good idea to co-inoculate. I think the reason @jgmann67 is having issues with his Cab and Merlot from this Spring is the BM4x4 ferment and MLB added after primary fermentation. I don't believe I've every used BM4x4 and done an MLF (could be wrong, going on memory), always used it on kits w/o MLF. I've never co-inoculated but have always picked friendly yeasts for MLB from Lallmand's site.
     
    pgentile likes this.
  11. cmason1957

    cmason1957 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,101
    Likes Received:
    1,267
    I have used BM4x4 several times and added the MLB after primary. Never had a problem with it. My guess on the issues folks have is that total SO2 is too high. When I do Chilean juice buckets (grapes aren't available in the Midwest) I never add any SO2 prior to fermentation.
     
    ceeaton and pgentile like this.
  12. ceeaton

    ceeaton Three is the charm, right?

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    4,024
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Location:
    Southern PA
    Yeah, I never add any SO2 to my Chilean grapes either. Never had issues with MLF (unless I forgot to stir), so I plan on sequential MLF unless I decide I just have to use BM4x4, then I'll co-inoculate.

    You'd have to figure that with the long ship times with SO2 pads in contact with those grapes that they'd have to retain some of the SO2 on the skins. California grapes arrive so much quicker that they probably don't retain as much of the SO2, at least that's what my simple mind has settled on.
     
    cmason1957 likes this.
  13. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    I know these buckets have been specially sealed/treated, but it does say on the buckets to store at +2 Celsius or 35 f. So I'm a little uneasy waiting a few days for the grape packs to come in, and to cheap to pay express delivery. I think I'm going to start these tonight and add the grape packs when they come in.

    @heatherd and/or @Ajmassa5983 do either of you remember/know what brix the grape packs are at? Will they add much sugar?
     
    Ajmassa5983 and heatherd like this.
  14. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,146
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    I just dumped it right it man.
     
    heatherd and pgentile like this.
  15. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    I expected to hear that from @heatherd but from you I expected brix down to the decimal, pH, TA, SO2, YAN, phenolic compound profile, gravity pull plus tannin viscosity.

    I can't get info from the manufacturers website, the PDF's on their website no longer exist.

    Like the man says I guess I'll just dump it in.
     
  16. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,146
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    I actually did some digging around when I bought it too. My main curiosity was “what varietal is it ?”
    I don’t have the link anymore but I learned they were Pinot Noir grapes for what it’s worth.
    And the pack is hella thick with skins. Consistency is more solid than liquid —which is a good thing :) But no hydromter reading possible and i didn’t own a refractometer at the time.
    I don’t have this info in my notes- so I’m just ballparking. SG of juice was 1.090. And the pack bumped it up a few ticks. Not much. Maybe 1.092 if I had to guess
     
    heatherd and pgentile like this.
  17. heatherd

    heatherd Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    786
    @pgentile and @Ajmassa5983 The buckets are called "shelf stable" by Presque Isle so I have them sitting in my kitchen waiting for the MM grape pack to arrive. I have done the same "dump" as AJ in the past because the grape pack is literally a large-particle near-solid goo like jam or maybe chutney. I didn't put them in a mesh bag, and just let them be free in the bucket.
     
    pgentile and Ajmassa5983 like this.
  18. heatherd

    heatherd Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    786
    Lovely!

    The Scott Labs website has amazing info on how their stuff is meant to be used and when. They show the rouge as a fermentation tannin and the riche as a finishing tannin:
    http://www.scottlab.com/products-29.aspx

    I'll likely add tannin powder I have on hand to the fermentation and then use medium toast oak spirals during aging.
     
    pgentile and Ajmassa5983 like this.
  19. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    Fedex said the grape packs are coming tomorrow, so decided to wait one more day. Going to take the same approach and dump right in with no bag.

    Got the tannin stuff straightened out a bit for what I have on hand.. Ft Rouge in primary and Tannin riche extra a few weeks before bottling(Not sure why I ordered Tannin Riche Extra but will try).
     
    heatherd likes this.
  20. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    453
    I thought about the varietal, but then figured they were like juice buckets, could be anything.

    Sounds like minimum bump on the SG....nothing to worry about then.
     
    heatherd likes this.

Share This Page