Other Not all winemakers are equal

[wineh]

While I (and others) make wine mainly from kits, some of the folks here make wine from grapes. You have my respect, as even if I could source grapes where I am, and have enough space for processing and aging wine that I can only make twice a year, I wouldn't as I perceive it to be too difficult.
Some of the folks who make wine from grapes also make kit wines, and participate in the kit wine making forums in a mostly respectful fashion, and I have come to expect that. While searching for something entirely different, I found the following link to a forum where kit wine making is more despised than I could imagine. These guys are downright toxic to the point of declaring that winemaker magazine's international amateur wine making competition is fixed, by Tim Vandergrift no less. Have a look if you dare.
http://www.westchesterwinemakers.com/2012/07/02/q/

 

[Boatboy24]

Wow, that was a fun read...

 

[joeswine]

Choice-people-quailty

I READ THE THREAD AND CAN TELL YOU THOSE GUYS HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINIONS,THAT BEING SAID I THINK THEY ARE WITHOUT QUESTION A WEBSITE THAT SHOULD BE INSTRUCTED IN THE FORMAL ARTS OF CONVERSATION AND DISCUSSION.

THEY FORGOT THAT THIS IS A HOBBY FOR MOST OF US AND NOT ARE LIFES WORK( WITH THE ACCEPTATION OF OUR VINEYARD OWNERS HERE),AND SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AS SUCH.A REAL BAD BUNCH OF GUYS.
I WOULD GO UP AGAINST THEM BOTTLE FOR BOTTLE ,FRESH JUICE,GRAPES,AND THEIR FAVORITE KITS,AND FRUIT WINES ANYTIME ANYWHERE,,THEY ALSO AREN'T AWARE THAT WINE MAKING AND FRUIT WINES AND MEAD'S WERE ALSO IN THE BEGINNING,THERE NOT TO INFORMED.


IF THEY DID HAVE MONITOR , THEY LEFT FOR A GOOD REASON,ANYONE WITH INTELLIGENCE COULD UNDER STAND.

 

[Julie]

The site is a blog and like said above they are entitled to their own opinions. I also believe they make some comments that would shock some people just to get hits onto their site.

My best advice is let them have their site and ignore them.

 

[rjb222]

I agree with Julie. I saw the thread on another forum to which they refer to. The total of all the negative comments were elitist to say the least and the average coment came off as conceded in their own abilities as well as fearful to compete against the kits. To accuse some one of fixing a contest with out evidence is paramount to defamation. I have met Tim V. he works for the opposition to the brand I carry I found him knowledgeable and all around a good guy but not one with the money nor the influence to fix a competition. The conversation used on th top frame I am of the opion that it has the earmarks of being written for purpose not an actual conversation between a customer and a seller.

 

[UBB]

Wow, my head hurt after reading that.

 

[JoaniB]

I'm not able to read the story right now because I'm at work, but I can't believe no one's made a pun about sour grapes?

Wineh, I'm right up there with you (latitude and everything, darn aren't I witty today?) and making wine from grapes just isn't a possibility here (also, I've heard the soil just isn't right for grapes, to say nothing of the winters here).

I agree with Joe that they're entitled to their opinions, but I thank my lucky stars that I found this place where kits are discussed openly and happily.

 

[UBB]

I'm not able to read the story right now because I'm at work, but I can't believe no one's made a pun about sour grapes?

Wineh, I'm right up there with you (latitude and everything, darn aren't I witty today?) and making wine from grapes just isn't a possibility here (also, I've heard the soil just isn't right for grapes, to say nothing of the winters here).

I agree with Joe that they're entitled to their opinions, but I thank my lucky stars that I found this place where kits are discussed openly and happily.

JoaniB, cold hardy grapes are grown in Regina. I imagine the climate isn't all that different from Edmonton.

 

[wineh]

JoaniB, cold hardy grapes are grown in Regina. I imagine the climate isn't all that different from Edmonton.

It's pretty cold in Bismark as well... in one of the few states that we agree has an actual winter (I might take it on the chin for that remark). I was not aware that there were cold hardy grapes for here yet. I thought I had just read that the University of North Dakota was working on a cold hardy grape project for our growing area. Has it already been successful? It wouldn't help me anyway; as much as wine from fresh grapes is more difficult than kits, growing your own grapes is 10 times harder yet! Kudos to those who do both!

 

[JoaniB]

It's pretty cold in Bismark as well... in one of the few states that we agree has an actual winter (I might take it on the chin for that remark). I was not aware that there were cold hardy grapes for here yet. I thought I had just read that the University of North Dakota was working on a cold hardy grape project for our growing area. Has it already been successful? It wouldn't help me anyway; as much as wine from fresh grapes is more difficult than kits, growing your own grapes is 10 times harder yet! Kudos to those who do both!

After a little bit of research, I have found reference to Valiant grapes being grown in Edmonton, along with Frontenac and Saint Croix.

I sit corrected.

 

[UBB]

It's pretty cold in Bismark as well... in one of the few states that we agree has an actual winter (I might take it on the chin for that remark). I was not aware that there were cold hardy grapes for here yet. I thought I had just read that the University of North Dakota was working on a cold hardy grape project for our growing area. Has it already been successful? It wouldn't help me anyway; as much as wine from fresh grapes is more difficult than kits, growing your own grapes is 10 times harder yet! Kudos to those who do both!

North Dakota State University is doing the research. The varieties I am growing were developed by the University of Minnesota.

 

[Rocky]

I am constantly amazed by these "make wine from grapes" snobs who feel such a compelling need to demean people who make wine from juice or kits. I really think that a Psychologist would have a field day working through their past life problems and short-comings. If one feels that the only way to make wine is from grapes, FINE! Then make wine from grapes and SHUT UP! I mean, it is not like they are doing brain surgery or curing cancer. They are merely making wine! Do they expect a standing ovation or perhaps the Nobel Prize?

As I have pointed out on this forum and others, I have made wine from fresh fruit other than grapes, grapes, juice and kits. I no longer have the equipment for making wine from grapes, other than a press, nor do I have the desire to do so. The mess it creates, the fruit flies, the labor...I don't need it for a marginal (IF ANY!) improvement in the final product?! For me, I like kits and I like fresh juice in buckets. I would do frozen must, but I don't see the advantage for the additional cost.

But, this is my preference. I don't demean others if they have a different view. If someone else has another preference, they should do it and God Bless Them!

 

[UBB]

I am constantly amazed by these "make wine from grapes" snobs who feel such a compelling need to demean people who make wine from juice or kits. I really think that a Psychologist would have a field day working through their past life problems and short-comings. If one feels that the only way to make wine is from grapes, FINE! Then make wine from grapes and SHUT UP! I mean, it is not like they are doing brain surgery or curing cancer. They are merely making wine! Do they expect a standing ovation or perhaps the Nobel Prize?

As I have pointed out on this forum and others, I have made wine from fresh fruit other than grapes, grapes, juice and kits. I no longer have the equipment for making wine from grapes, other than a press, nor do I have the desire to do so. The mess it creates, the fruit flies, the labor...I don't need it for a marginal (IF ANY!) improvement in the final product?! For me, I like kits and I like fresh juice in buckets. I would do frozen must, but I don't see the advantage for the additional cost.

But, this is my preference. I don't demean others if they have a different view. If someone else has another preference, they should do it and God Bless Them!

Well said Rocky. I happen to be on the other end of the spectrum. I enjoy making fruit & grape wines much more then kits. I get a weird satisfaction that I had complete control over how the final product turns out even though the quality of the end product might not be as good.

 

[Bartman]

Wow. What a bunch of a$$-holes on that blog site. I don't generally use that sort of language, but I also don't usually come across such pointless and juvenile hostility towards another person. I'd be very nervous being in the author's physical presence - that sort of senseless anger makes me think of 'roid rage and mental imbalances, not someone I would want to be in the same room with if I could help it.

 

[tonyt]

Double Wow Bartman, I read the thread all the way through . . . what a waste of my and my company's time . "F" bombs all over the place and Timmy the Troll. Three cheers for Alan over there, someone invite him here. Or if you (Alan) are already here please make yourself known so we can compliment you properly.

 

[Rocky]

Well said Rocky. I happen to be on the other end of the spectrum. I enjoy making fruit & grape wines much more then kits. I get a weird satisfaction that I had complete control over how the final product turns out even though the quality of the end product might not be as good.

And that is great for you, UBB. As I said, I used to make wine from grapes (started out that way) a long time ago. Of course then, it was a family event, a whole weekend of stripping and crushing, you know the drill. The wine was good, not great, but very drinkable and actually cost us about $.25 per gallon in the late 1940's. When I quit making wine with my family, it had increased to about $2.25 per gallon. That would have been in the early 1970's. Some years were much better than others and we were fairly limited in the varieties available.

If I were younger, had more space and the equipment, I might try a batch from grapes for old times sake. Maybe it is just laziness, maybe it is old age or maybe it is "settling," but I like the ease of making kits, the varieties available, the more consistent outcome and, yes, I like the quality of wines I have made from kits and juice buckets. At the same time, I understand and respect those who enjoy making wine from grapes.

One man's food...

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Well Ladies and Gentlemen it is no secret I am a Member of the Westchester Amateur Winemakers Club. www.westchesterwinemakers.com If you have anything to say you can say it to me. The Club and the Blog believe people are entitled to their opinions and there is no censoring of comments. All of you are free to comment there and have your opinion read by those you seem to have issue with. With regards to Kit Wine the opinions are varied but the consensus is that Kit Wines should at least be judged in a separate category when awarding "best of". There is not a problem with Kit wines being judged in a flight as all wines are judged on a point scale and not against each other. Besides all of this the blog has the latest and most up to date harvest and lab testing information of grapes being shipped to the East Coast. Just yesterday a report was filed from the field in Napa. Any winemaker on the East Coast would be well served reading the Harvest updates that are provided throughout the season. So I would tell winemakers who plan on obtaining M&M distributed grapes or ones supplied to other distributors in other locations to pay special attention to the Blog. You can all be outraged or whatever you are but winemakers are served well at this blog. In addition many of you obtain Delta Packing grapes usually named with the area and the word Gold
ie Lodi Gold My club has direct contact with this packer and gets updates immediately.
My advice is think like a winemaker and leave the hysterics behind.

Malvina

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I READ THE THREAD AND CAN TELL YOU THOSE GUYS HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINIONS,THAT BEING SAID I THINK THEY ARE WITHOUT QUESTION A WEBSITE THAT SHOULD BE INSTRUCTED IN THE FORMAL ARTS OF CONVERSATION AND DISCUSSION.

THEY FORGOT THAT THIS IS A HOBBY FOR MOST OF US AND NOT ARE LIFES WORK( WITH THE ACCEPTATION OF OUR VINEYARD OWNERS HERE),AND SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AS SUCH.A REAL BAD BUNCH OF GUYS.
I WOULD GO UP AGAINST THEM BOTTLE FOR BOTTLE ,FRESH JUICE,GRAPES,AND THEIR FAVORITE KITS,AND FRUIT WINES ANYTIME ANYWHERE,,THEY ALSO AREN'T AWARE THAT WINE MAKING AND FRUIT WINES AND MEAD'S WERE ALSO IN THE BEGINNING,THERE NOT TO INFORMED.


IF THEY DID HAVE MONITOR , THEY LEFT FOR A GOOD REASON,ANYONE WITH INTELLIGENCE COULD UNDER STAND.

Thank you Joe for you giving posters on my club blog the "right to their opinion" We didn't actually forget it was a hobby most of us have a serious passion, there is a difference. If you want to compare you wines to ours you are certainly invited to one of our dinners. We would welcome tasting yours I am sure. You might be impressed with ours. Please keep in mind that a very accomplished winemaker Marty Yule was banned from this site because after he was told you use a speech recognition program to write your posts here he asked if you were handicapped. He meant no harm. So at the end of the day you can have a Moderator control speech or you can truly accept free speech. I am pretty sure after this Joe they will find a reason to ban me.
Malvina

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Wow. What a bunch of a$$-holes on that blog site. I don't generally use that sort of language, but I also don't usually come across such pointless and juvenile hostility towards another person. I'd be very nervous being in the author's physical presence - that sort of senseless anger makes me think of 'roid rage and mental imbalances, not someone I would want to be in the same room with if I could help it.

Are you serious? really! You would be worried about your well being. That is ridiculous. Get a grip. LOL
Malvina

 

[UBB]

Are you serious? really! You would be worried about your well being. That is ridiculous. Get a grip. LOL
Malvina

I find it a bit disconcerting that you seem to be so defensive of the attitudes being displayed in the provided link.