Totally different fermentations

[dave60]

Hi All.
I'm very new to the forum and just started trying some kit wines after about some 25yrs. I bought two beaverdale kits here in Scotland, one white and one red. My wife doesnt drink red and I don't drink white, keeps it simple. I wasn't expecting such a difference in the two fermentations. The white kicked off almost immediately with what I'd expected, a bubble a second through the airlock. The red took nearly a full day before starting, I was a bit concerned. Then I got up to what you see I the photo. Are they supposed to be do different during fermentation?
Thanks
Dave

 

[VinesnBines]

Welcome!

Don't worry, everything is perfectly normal. You may want to take the airlocks off and let both have some oxygen and stir a couple times a day. Do you have a hydrometer to measure the Specific Gravity (SG) or refractometer to measure the Brix? Once fermentation slows and the wines stop dropping SG or Brix, you will want to rack to a clean jug and airlock.

Where in Scotland? I love the collection of whisky! We should be there hiking the Highlands and enjoying the best single malts.

 

[salcoco]

first thought each may have different yeast which would cause a slight delay. in the future I would start in a open bucket and then transfer to a carboy once fermentation is complete.

 

[dave60]

Welcome!

Don't worry, everything is perfectly normal. You may want to take the airlocks off and let both have some oxygen and stir a couple times a day. Do you have a hydrometer to measure the Specific Gravity (SG) or refractometer to measure the Brix? Once fermentation slows and the wines stop dropping SG or Brix, you will want to rack to a clean jug and airlock.

Where in Scotland? I love the collection of whisky! We should be there hiking the Highlands and enjoying the best single malts.

AHH ok. I thought I had to keep the oxygen levels down hence the airlocks. I have a hydrometer but in my haste to get started I forgot to check it. I'll check it when the bubbling stops. I'll also rerack and clean it all up.

I live in Glasgow. We have a caravan in Dornoch in the Highlands. We get up about six or seven times a year. If your a golfer you'd love it, it's right on the Royal Dornoch course.
Thanks. All the whisky's are opened apart from about three. I believe in drinking them not watching them lol. I'm up to around eighty different malts. I like some more than others but they're all nice in different ways.

 

[dave60]

first thought each may have different yeast which would cause a slight delay. in the future I would start in a open bucket and then transfer to a carboy once fermentation is complete.

Thanks. Yeah different yeasts, that makes sense. I've read on here that starting in a bucket is quite common. It's not something I'd heard of. I've always started the kits this way. I only ever used a bucket when starting from fruit. I'll maybe think about starting a red in a bucket next time as the white has behaved itself.

 

[sour_grapes]

AHH ok. I thought I had to keep the oxygen levels down hence the airlocks. I have a hydrometer but in my haste to get started I forgot to check it. I'll check it when the bubbling stops. I'll also rerack and clean it all up.

I live in Glasgow. We have a caravan in Dornoch in the Highlands. We get up about six or seven times a year. If your a golfer you'd love it, it's right on the Royal Dornoch course.
Thanks. All the whisky's are opened apart from about three. I believe in drinking them not watching them lol. I'm up to around eighty different malts. I like some more than others but they're all nice in different ways.

Love Dornoch! (Although I haven't been there in ages.). Despite living in the States, my brother-in-law is a playing member there.

Agree with the others. No need to airlock. In the future, try to remember to get a specific gravity reading at the beginning so you know how much alcohol you will have; but since it is a kit, it likely started in a good place.

 

[dave60]

Love Dornoch! (Although I haven't been there in ages.). Despite living in the States, my brother-in-law is a playing member there.

Agree with the others. No need to airlock. In the future, try to remember to get a specific gravity reading at the beginning so you know how much alcohol you will have; but since it is a kit, it likely started in a good place.

Thank you. Yeah, taking a reading will be a part of setting up from now on. It makes sense to know what the alcohol content will be.

Dornoch is beautiful. I've been visiting for over fifty years now. The beach, the local people and so may places to see. You can even go to the Orkney isles for the day. The golf club has many members from all over the world. Every day has members and visitors from far and wide playing. You never know who your standing next to up there.

 

[VinesnBines]

Dornoch is beautiful. I've been visiting for over fifty years now. The beach, the local people and so may places to see. You can even go to the Orkney isles for the day.

We've never been past Inverness but the Orkneys are on my list; hopefully next visit - post plague. My airline tickets have been changed twice since last March and have to change again (May). Spent a wonderful week in Kingussie in April 2018.

Anyway, unlike beer, wine likes some oxygen to help the yeast along.

 

[dave60]

We've never been past Inverness but the Orkneys are on my list; hopefully next visit - post plague. My airline tickets have been changed twice since last March and have to change again (May). Spent a wonderful week in Kingussie in April 2018.

Anyway, unlike beer, wine likes some oxygen to help the yeast along.

I'll take the airlock off the red wine and put a loose cover over it

The lockdown has affected us all in so may different ways.
Make sure to head further North next time. Dornoch is only about 40ish miles from Inverness and plenty distillery's to visit. Orkney is something else. So many places that link to the past, some more than 5000 years.

 

[winemaker81]

Yeast wants oxygen during the initial stages as it uses it for reproduction. It's a good idea to ferment whites and reds in food grade buckets, just cover loosely with a towel. When fermentation winds down (SG < 1.020) the need for O2 drops, and after fermentation O2 is the enemy.

Also if you ferment a 4 liter batch in an 8 liter bucket, you won't have to clean up!

In addition to differences in yeast, the wines are different growing environments. Differences in brix, amounts of nutrients, ph, etc. directly affect how the yeast grows. Temperature also has a role, although in your case the two wines are together it shouldn't be a factor.

In general, allow up to 48 hours for yeast to kick off.

BTW -- it appears your volume is less than the jug size. Post-fermentation you'll want to top up -- if you don't have extra, a compatible wine is generally recommended.

 

[dave60]

Yeast wants oxygen during the initial stages as it uses it for reproduction. It's a good idea to ferment whites and reds in food grade buckets, just cover loosely with a towel. When fermentation winds down (SG < 1.020) the need for O2 drops, and after fermentation O2 is the enemy.

Also if you ferment a 4 liter batch in an 8 liter bucket, you won't have to clean up!

In addition to differences in yeast, the wines are different growing environments. Differences in brix, amounts of nutrients, ph, etc. directly affect how the yeast grows. Temperature also has a role, although in your case the two wines are together it shouldn't be a factor.

In general, allow up to 48 hours for yeast to kick off.

BTW -- it appears your volume is less than the jug size. Post-fermentation you'll want to top up -- if you don't have extra, a compatible wine is generally recommended.

Thank you.
It's been such a long time since I last made wine I've forgotten most of it.
I had a look last night at some old books I used years ago and one recommended half filling the demijon and when the fermentation settled down topping up to the correct amount. Might have bee a better idea to read the books first.
I didn't realise that it could take so long to activate the fermentation.

 

[winemaker81]

It's been such a long time since I last made wine I've forgotten most of it.
I had a look last night at some old books I used years ago and one recommended half filling the demijon and when the fermentation settled down topping up to the correct amount. Might have bee a better idea to read the books first.
I didn't realise that it could take so long to activate the fermentation.

Glad to be of service!

IME, fermentation rarely takes a long as 48 hours to kick off -- most of mine are within 6 hours. But yeast does it's own thing ...

Half filling a demijohn works fine, but buckets are easier to clean. Yes, I am lazy!

You might use a picture of the red's airlock as your avatar. At this moment it may not be a great memory for you, but looking back you may find it humorous. I recall a beer fermenting inside a sealed bucket, foam and stuff spurting through the airlock, a puddle of wasted beer overflowing the rim of the lid. At that moment I was really unhappy, but now I wish I had video of it. Yes, I am easy to amuse.

Your picture reminds me why I use only 3 piece airlocks -- I had chunks blow through the airlock on a few occasions (including the mentioned event) and the double-bubblers are difficult to clean. The 3 piece locks are much easier.

 

[sour_grapes]

You might use a picture of the red's airlock as your avatar.

I like that idea!

 

[dave60]

Glad to be of service!

IME, fermentation rarely takes a long as 48 hours to kick off -- most of mine are within 6 hours. But yeast does it's own thing ...

Half filling a demijohn works fine, but buckets are easier to clean. Yes, I am lazy!

You might use a picture of the red's airlock as your avatar. At this moment it may not be a great memory for you, but looking back you may find it humorous. I recall a beer fermenting inside a sealed bucket, foam and stuff spurting through the airlock, a puddle of wasted beer overflowing the rim of the lid. At that moment I was really unhappy, but now I wish I had video of it. Yes, I am easy to amuse.

Your picture reminds me why I use only 3 piece airlocks -- I had chunks blow through the airlock on a few occasions (including the mentioned event) and the double-bubblers are difficult to clean. The 3 piece locks are much easier.


View attachment 71309

Excellent idea... Unfortunately this was after I'd cleaned the first one off slightly. That was even more spectacular, volcanic eruption sprung to mind. A quick blast through from the tap cleaned it up thankfully.
Just a thought.. If I half fill the Demijon with water to start it off will it be too concentrated for the fermentation to take place? Or will that be ok and then when it settles down too it up to the correct level?..

 

[winemaker81]

If I half fill the Demijon with water to start it off will it be too concentrated for the fermentation to take place? Or will that be ok and then when it settles down too it up to the correct level?

I started to reply but when I re-read your question, I think I understand. Are you asking if you can partially dilute the kit, start fermentation, then later add the remaining water?

If so, I recommend against it. One problem is as you expected, the must will be too concentrated. Additionally, the balance of acid and nutrients will be off.

BTW, I love the first line of the Beaverdale site -- it expresses confidence in their product:

House of Beaverdale is a pure grape concentrate of such high quality that it allows people to produce fine wines in their own homes, in a range of wines to rival those produced professionally in the Chateaux of the world's greatest wine producing regions.

 

[dave60]

I started to reply but when I re-read your question, I think I understand. Are you asking if you can partially dilute the kit, start fermentation, then later add the remaining water?

If so, I recommend against it. One problem is as you expected, the must will be too concentrated. Additionally, the balance of acid and nutrients will be off.

BTW, I love the first line of the Beaverdale site -- it expresses confidence in their product:

House of Beaverdale is a pure grape concentrate of such high quality that it allows people to produce fine wines in their own homes, in a range of wines to rival those produced professionally in the Chateaux of the world's greatest wine producing regions.

Yes, that's exactly what I was asking. I had an idea it would knock it out of balance.

Beaverdale.. it wasn't the most expensive kit they had but it was far from the cheapest. Here's hoping that it stands up to their sales pitch. I'll post an update when I get around to trying it out.