Cellar Craft Secondary Fermentation question - newbie

[RJB]

Hi to all

I have just transferred my CC Yakima Chardonnay from primary to secondary fermentation. This is my 7th CC kit, and all of them indicate to make the transition when the SG is below 1.000. In fact mine have varied between .994 and .998, depending on when I have time to do it.
But I have seen other manufacturers' instructions suggest below 1.010.
Here's my question... does the chemistry of fermentation require a precisely defined point in going from primary to secondary? Or is it a case of "winging it"?

My previous kit was a CC Viognier - when it went into secondary (at 0.994) it was fairly active. Current kit is the Chardonnay (0.996) but it shows only very slow bubbling in secondary. Given that my brewery is my laundry, hardly a controlled environment, some variation is inevitable, but the Chardonnay surprises me, I thought I would see more action when it went to secondary.

Can any more experienced heads out there comment on this?

thanks in advance

Bob

 

[Tom]

Each manufacture will have slightly different directions. One reason is how the develop their kits. Another is how they feel its best to clear their wine with the clearing agent that they use.

 

[ibglowin]

That in essence is the beauty of this hobby. Its really hard to screw up. I personally leave my reds in the bucket until ~ 1.000 but transfer whites a little earlier since they are more prone to oxidation.

Your seeing activity at 0.994. Thats pretty incredible. Must be all the extra O2 at sea level!

Here's my question... does the chemistry of fermentation require a precisely defined point in going from primary to secondary? Or is it a case of "winging it"?

 

[PurpleToes]

My personal take on when to rack from primary to secondary is that you want to do it so that there is a bit of time where fermentation continues a little so as to generate and keep a blanket of CO2 above your wine in the carboy.
If you rack too late, you may end up with not enough or no further fermentation, and thus risk oxidation (assuming bulk aging) because the wine is in contact with oxygenated air. So I usually rack when the SG is between 1.01 and 1.00, regardless of how many days into the process I am.

 

[TheoS]

I'm on my first kit also a CCraft- a White Bordeaux blend. When I hit SG of 1.00 in the primary- I racked and started the second fermentation. My cellar temp was 60 degrees F for the entire process and the SG never made it below 1.00- I racked and fined last night- drove the CO2 out with several stirrings and I'm hoping to sit by the pool this August/September with an awesome glass of wine. Hope I didn't mess-up with too much oxidation. If I did- then my brothers will receive my remianing 29 bottles as birthday gifts!

 

[Luc]

This is my 7th CC kit, and all of them indicate to make the transition when the SG is below 1.000.

Bob

Bob,

Tim Vandergrift the head of research of WineExpert once explained this clearly. He did it for their Kits but I suppose it is equal for all kits.

A kit manufacturer makes a juice in a certain way to react on the additions in a way they want it to react.

So there is a certain point during fermentation that a must benefits from an addition of oxygen. That point is fairly critical. That is why they urge you to rack at a certain point.
The must will react on the added oxygen at this point.

Now if you move that point in time thye must will react differently.

Maybe there will be no harm done, however it will not be the wine the manufacturer intended you to make.

So stick to the rules the manufacturer presents you and these rules may indeed vary from kit to kit.

If you dont like that, do as I do: make wine from scratch and you are in charge.

Luc

 

[robie]

I'm on my first kit also a CCraft- a White Bordeaux blend. When I hit SG of 1.00 in the primary- I racked and started the second fermentation. My cellar temp was 60 degrees F for the entire process and the SG never made it below 1.00- I racked and fined last night- drove the CO2 out with several stirrings and I'm hoping to sit by the pool this August/September with an awesome glass of wine. Hope I didn't mess-up with too much oxidation. If I did- then my brothers will receive my remianing 29 bottles as birthday gifts!

Your wine should be fine. Likely, the reason it never went below 1.000 is because the temperature was too cool for secondary to complete. When a wine's SG gets into secondary, its fermentation process doesn't produce as much internal heat as during active fermentation. As a result, the wine was likely trying to complete fermentation at a very low temperature (cellar temp of 60F) for the CC supplied yeast. The pros can get away with such low temperature fermentations, but most home wine makers can't. Many times fermentation will start again if the wine is warmed up to about 70F or higher.

So, you need to be sure fermentation doesn't start again. Add your kmeta. Next, you need to either add sorbate as supplied by CC or do a very fine filtration (expensive equipment!) to remove all the yeast. if you don't, you risk fermentation starting again in the bottle.

Another point is degassing. If you degassed your wine at a temperature of 60F, it is not likely you came even close to getting all the CO2 out. I promised you that you won't like the taste of the wine if it is still loaded with CO2. The wine needs to be warmed to about 75F to degas properly. If you haven't bottled it, yet, warm it up and degas it again.

 

[RJB]

Thanks guys. I try to follow manufacturers' instructions as closely as possible, but I notice there can be a very large variation in behaviour during primary fermentation, such as how fast it ferments, and the SG it achieves during the time specified in the instructions.
I put this down, at least in part, to variations in temperature. I have now taken to using a brew belt, and try to keep things at around 70degF during the fermentation stages, and closer to 75degF during clearing. We live and (hopefully) learn.
However, I have never made the same kit twice, so am probably comparing apples with oranges =:O
regards
Bob

 

[robie]

Bob,

There are several main reasons for the differentiation between primary and secondary.

1) We home wine makers need to rack from primary to secondary so we can start another batch of wine in our fermentor bucket!!! Ok, this may not be the best reason, but it works for me!

2) Sometimes the wine needs to be taken off the lees, as is the case of fresh/frozen grape wine, the wine needs to be pressed off the grapes. Similarly, must kit wine with grape packs need to have the grape pack removed from the wine and the wine taken off the lees.

3) Now this is probably the main reason, especially for kit wines - Fermentation can be divided into two distinct stages - aerobic and anaerobic. The first stage, aerobic, actually requires oxygen for the yeast to do their job. This is where we loosely set the lid on the fermentation buck and do n't add an air lock. I, at least, remove the lid and stir my wine daily during this stage. Without proper amounts of oxygen, the fermentation can get stuck.

The second stage starts when the yeast not only no longer need oxygen, but actually should be kept from oxygen. For the most part, the start of this second stage is the reason why we are instructed to rack the wine into a carboy and add an airlock to isolate the wine from oxygen. It signals the beginning of secondary fermentation. That point is usually an SG of between 1.020 and 1.000, but as I said, whatever your instructions say is what you should use.

Different wines and different kit makers do magic things to their kits to determine when the wine should move from stage one into stage two. As Luc wrote, that's why you should adhere to the instructions, concerning when to rack to secondary. Sometimes racking to secondary is not called for; instead, at secondary time, the fermentor lid is snapped closed and an air lock is added right on the primary fermentor. This method also prevents oxygen from entering the wine.

Having said that, it doesn't seem logical that you should rack to secondary when the SG is much lower than 1.000. You spoke about an SG of .994; most wine is already finished fermentation at that SG, so transferring it to secondary at that point doesn't do much. I tried to get on the Cellar Craft web site to read the instructions, but their site seems to be down.

 

[TheoS]

Thank You for the degass info. I was feeling pretty comfortable about the fermentation because the specifications on the yeast (EC1118 I think) said it was active to 50 F. What you suggested makes sense. Yep- I've added all the pre-packaged additives. I will take the wine temp up and degas again. I'm soooo grateful for the advice. Thanks!

 

[robie]

Thank You for the degass info. I was feeling pretty comfortable about the fermentation because the specifications on the yeast (EC1118 I think) said it was active to 50 F. What you suggested makes sense. Yep- I've added all the pre-packaged additives. I will take the wine temp up and degas again. I'm soooo grateful for the advice. Thanks!

Proper degassing can be a real chore. Until last evening I thought I pretty much had the process down.

It was time to rack a Pinot Noir kit wine I started aging last November. It has been in a carboy, under an air lock since then. Recently I purchased a vacuum pump from Wade. Thinking my Pinot was degassed, I decided to put a vacuum on it for the first time... just for grins.

Well, before I knew what was happening and could shut the pump off, I got such a volcano of foam, it went down the primary hose and into the catch container on the vacuum pump assembly. I ended up vacuuming it for another ten minutes before all the little bubbles stopped streaming up the sides of the carboy and foam stopped coming up.

I was really surprised, as I always used a drill and stirring rod and stayed with it until no more bubbles. And of course I always warmed the wine to about 75F to degas. WHat can I say? From now on, I will use the vacuum to degas and always try vacuum degassing again before I bottle.

 

[TheoS]

I have another quick question regarding degassing and oxidation- but first- I want to apologize to RJB for hijacking his original post- sorry and thanks for the question-

Why don't we create an oxidation problem if we degass aggressivly? The instructions with the CC kit indicate to "stir for 2 minutes" etc. I used a cordless drill with a paddle that fits through the neck of the carboy. but again- I've been concerned with O2 contact mitigated by topping off, avoiding siphon splash and makeing certain my stopper is secure.

 

[ibglowin]

Because the wine is protected by the CO2. After you have degassed the wine then it becomes vulnerable. That is why Sulfite is added immediately after you have degassed, to protect the wine as the Sulfite will react with any O2 first and tie it up so it can't oxidize the wine. Oxidation is not an instantaneous thing, its a slow process that plods along but if the wine is not protected it can visually effect the color of a white wine in just a matter of weeks.