Raspberry wine question

[acorn]

Hello, this is my first post here, but I have been following these forums for a couple of months now.

I have recently made a 3 gal. batch of raspberry wine from frozen raspberries (I bought them fresh and froze myself). It has been 5 weeks since the end of the primary fermentation and I racked the wine twice already. The wine has fermented to dryness from OG=1.093 to FG=0.990 and doesn't seem to have gone through any MLF (I didn't add the culture, anyway). The appearance and color of the wine don't seem to indicate any problems with it, however, my issue is that it tastes too acidic (pH=approx. 3.2-3.3) and astringent to the point it is made just barely palatable. At the same time, I don't smell any vinegar or other bad odors.

As the wine is still in the carboy, degassed and treated with sparkolloid, I am thinking to stabilize and back sweeten at the end, but I am not sure whether sweetening alone would be enough to balance the astringency. Would the addition of glycerin help to soften the wine a bit?

I know I could also add K-bicarbonate and cold stabilize to reduce the acidity, but, unfortunately it is not an option for me at the time as I don't have a dedicated refrigerator.

I would appreciate any advice on how to "rescue" or improve the batch from its current state. Thanks a lot!

 

[dralarms]

If it's at .990, I'd add sugar to get it to 1.000 at least. Fruit wines are semi sweet for the most part.

 

[acorn]

Thanks, I guess this is what I'll do in the end. I am not too familiar with back sweetening, but from what I've heard, wouldn't I risk renewed fermentation at some later point, if I use regular table sugar? In your practice, did you have any positive experience with wine conditioners or other sweetening agents that you can speak to?

 

[sour_grapes]

I am not too familiar with back sweetening, but from what I've heard, wouldn't I risk renewed fermentation at some later point, if I use regular table sugar?

If you let these age for quite a while, so that you get most of the yeast out by racking, and then use potassium sorbate before/with your backsweetening, you won't experience refermentation.

 

[BernardSmith]

If you let these age for quite a while, so that you get most of the yeast out by racking, and then use potassium sorbate before/with your backsweetening, you won't experience refermentation.

Technically, I think you really need to add both K-meta and K-sorbate to inhibit refermentation. I say that only because that is what the literature suggests and I have myself not ever tested the effectiveness of adding only K-sorbate.

 

[acorn]

Technically, I think you really need to add both K-meta and K-sorbate to inhibit refermentation. I say that only because that is what the literature suggests and I have myself not ever tested the effectiveness of adding only K-sorbate.

I generally agree with this approach, unless you already added enough, and adding more along with K-sorbate would make SO2 noticeable. So in my case I will add both together just to make sure that there is no wild MLF or refermentation happening when I bottle after back sweetening. I am also considering adding fresh raspberry juice to bring up the fruity aroma, so I suppose, adding both K-sorbate and K-meta in combination is more appropriate.

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback so far! If you have any more quick tips in regard to reducing the acidity I am still interested in hearing about it.

 

[WineYooper]

Give it some time, relax the taste will come around with ageing. It may take 1-2 years for some to really develop great taste. I have never racked my wine twice in five weeks. Usually the first time is maybe two weeks depending on how much settles out then maybe a month depending again on lees, and most of my fruit wine I age for 11-12 months. It's hard to fight the urge to taste it, but now is the time for patience, search this sight and you will gain tons of knowledge. I usually make a simple syrup and back sweeten to about 1.01, to me somewhat of a neutral between dry & sweet.

 

[peaches9324]

yes what WineYooper said. My suggestion to you is leave it sit in a cool dark place forget about it for 3 mos then maybe rack if needed and it probably will. Take a lil taste before you add a dose of kmeta. Right now what you need to do to take your mind off of that is start something new. I know this is not what you want to hear but it will take over a year to quit dropping sediment slow down and enjoy the ride

 

[acorn]

Give it some time, relax the taste will come around with ageing. It may take 1-2 years for some to really develop great taste.

yes what WineYooper said. My suggestion to you is leave it sit in a cool dark place forget about it for 3 mos then maybe rack if needed and it probably will. Take a lil taste before you add a dose of kmeta. Right now what you need to do to take your mind off of that is start something new. I know this is not what you want to hear but it will take over a year to quit dropping sediment slow down and enjoy the ride

Oh, I am definitely prepared to wait. It is just the first time my wine gets as acidic as this (even more so than in cranberry wine I made last year, which is quite surprising), so I was wondering whether ageing by itself would solve the problem, or should I use something in addition. I have to admit I panicked a bit. But again, if ageing it is, then aged it will be. Thank you.

 

[jensmith]

A little Rasberry goes a long way! Its one of those fruits that more is not better in wine making. Too many per galleon gives you a bitter wine. Verry full in flavor, but with a bite! Take a glass and add a splash of water. Let it sit a few minutes and try it. The bite should be less now. If you like it better that way you can either dilute it now or by the glass as you drink it. Diluting it with a mild wine will work as well.
I sweeten almost none of my wines. When I do I use the frozen fruit juice concentrates. One or two cans is the most I have ever used. Usually after it is clear and the abv is too high for the yeat to restart. Tried the sorbate and sulfa method, it refermented on me. Luckily for me, sweet is anything above .995! So it just lightly carbonated.



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[richmke]

I made a batch of Raspberry wine. A local store had a can on clearance, so I thought "why not?". I back sweetened, and it is bitter.

What would be good mild wines to mix it with?

Any thoughts on how it would be as a Sangria? I should try mixing it with some SP or DB that I have.

 

[jensmith]

SP or DB would not mellow it much, unless you had yours very sweet. They can be a little high in acid. That said, do bench trials with whatever you have on hand. Use whatever taste good to you. You can just try sweetening it up even more. I can't do sweet so I will be little help in that department!
Any wine that does not bite you back should work. I just tried some store bought chaitai (sp?) wine. Mellowed it nicely. I have used a store bought merlo with good results, and any of my wines work as well. Even the cranberry! Rasberry just goes with everything. Just remember it is best in small doses. That flavor comes threw most times. Too much and the ascid bite domenates. ( I like that most days!).
If your kit had you add extra acid blend try not adding it next time. Rasberry does not often need the extra acid.


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[acorn]

A little Rasberry goes a long way! Its one of those fruits that more is not better in wine making. Too many per galleon gives you a bitter wine. Verry full in flavor, but with a bite! Take a glass and add a splash of water. Let it sit a few minutes and try it. The bite should be less now.

Hmm, thanks for the interesting remark. I used 10 lbs of thawed raspberries for the 3 gallon batch. The pure juice made it about 2/3 of one gallon, with the rest being diluted with water. I looked up recipes in my books as well as online and some said I should use 3 lbs/gal, while others mentioned 4 lbs. So I followed less-is-better approach. Based on what you say, it might have been worse, had I made it 4 lbs/gallon. Also, I macerated the wine for half of the time the wine spent in the primary, so maybe I shouldn't have gone that way, and just let the liquid stay as is.

Anyway, I will let it sit in the carboy for at least 6 months or so, and then I'll decide what to do. In fact, since I have some headspace in the carboy after racking, I will probably fill it up with some water, so it would decrease the acidity a bit and leave less room for any air that may leak in.

 

[jensmith]

15# for a five gallon batch comes out very strong. I then make a seconds wine with the used fruit and sludge. That comes out a nice light wine. Blended they are perfect. I used 20# the first time! That got diluted with a very light seconds wine!
Next time I am gonna only use 2# per galleon.
Those bascic fruit recipies all call for 3-4# per galleon. I think numbers are picked by random...

I quart added to a light cranberry 3 gal batch add detectable flavors. One pound per galleon added to rubarb wine came out fantasctic!
So if aging does not mellow it enough for you, use it as flavoring other wines. Aging fixes many flaws!

Sometimes a little tannin will smooth over that acid bite. Pull off a bottle or small juice jar and add some grape tannin. Let it sit a week and retaste. I find number 6 or 8 fitts most juice jars. Great for sampeling or odd bits!




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[acorn]

Sometimes a little tannin will smooth over that acid bite. Pull off a bottle or small juice jar and add some grape tannin. Let it sit a week and retaste. I find number 6 or 8 fitts most juice jars. Great for sampeling or odd bits!

Thanks for the tip. I have a bottle of tannin powder that came with instructions: 1/4 tsp per gallon for white and rose wines, and 1/3 tsp per gallon for reds. Is that what you would typically add? I think it may be wiser to go with 1/4 tsp per gallon first, so I don't overdo it.

 

[jensmith]

That sounds about right. However you can always add more later, but you can't take it out. So I would add half that to start with. I use the full amount at the start of fermtaion. Less when I add it after.
Different tannins have different amounts. I only have used a few differnt typs.
Rember to let it sit a week, or at least overnight before adding more tannin. It can take a bit to fully intergrate into the wine.


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[UBB]

A little Rasberry goes a long way! Its one of those fruits that more is not better in wine making. Too many per galleon gives you a bitter wine. Verry full in flavor, but with a bite! Take a glass and add a splash of water. Let it sit a few minutes and try it. The bite should be less now. If you like it better that way you can either dilute it now or by the glass as you drink it. Diluting it with a mild wine will work as well.
I sweeten almost none of my wines. When I do I use the frozen fruit juice concentrates. One or two cans is the most I have ever used. Usually after it is clear and the abv is too high for the yeat to restart. Tried the sorbate and sulfa method, it refermented on me. Luckily for me, sweet is anything above .995! So it just lightly carbonated.



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Then I would say you had old/bad sorbate

 

[jensmith]

It worked just fine the next time I used it. Laws of science and logic do not apply to my house some days..... And Murfey works overtime!
Luckily for me I like dry wine


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[acorn]

So, the wine is still sitting in the carboy with no apparent changes, so I let it age a bit to mellow that acidity. Anyway, I was thinking of backsweetening it at the end of the year, not with water syrup, though, but rather with sweetened juice that I will press from frozen raspberries (I aim to end up with about 1 L of clear juice to be added).

Here is my question: what should I do to the juice before I sweeten it and add to the batch of wine? I am specifically interested in finding out whether or not it requires any of the following:

1. Adding pectin enzyme (because it was added to the wine)
2. Fining with bentonite or sparkolloid, etc....
3. Adding K-sorbate + K-meta only to fresh juice, to wine, or to both, and in what proportions
4. Sweetening options: sugar, honey, wine conditioner, etc...

Thank you very much for your answers.

 

[acorn]

^^ Anyone, please, I could really use some advice here as I have a gut feeling that something may go not as I thought and spoil the whole batch.