Fresh grapes or kits?

[jh0330]

Hello, I am a new to wine making.
Currently I have 2 gallons of blackberry wine in my secondary bulk aging.
This batch is on the thin side and there is too much oak. It will need some time for the oak flavour to settle down a bit.

I wanted to try a new batch with new skills I have learnt to try to create something better.
It sounds like a fun activity so I was thinking of going out to a local vineyard to get some fresh grapes. The alternative was to just try out a kit.

I was planning on calling around to see what types of grapes are available.
So far I have only called one vineyard and they said they only have "thompson seedless" and "autumn king?" (this is what it sounded like on the phone) but out of concords. With research I found the thompson seedless grapes do not give good wine.
I have found wine grapes are very difficult to come by.

Any recommendations on grape strains for Greater Vancouver Metropolitan area? Or where? Maybe I should try using juice? Or maybe I should just use a kit?
How much should I be expecting to pay per pound?
I have done a bit of research and found that concords should be pretty abundant anywhere in north america and it gives decent wine. I am thinking of using concords. I've heard a lug (32 pounds) of grapes give about 3 gallons. So, I am planning on purchasing 20~30 pounds for maybe around 2gallons to 3 gallons.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Number 1...slow down.
Do you have all the necessary equipment, supplies, chemicals and test devices to make all grape wine?

Kits are already pH balanced, SO2 correct and have the correct tannins and sugars. Also, you dont have to crush kits.

Good luck, I figured wine grapes would be easy to get in Vancouver.

 

[heatherd]

Another option to fresh grapes would be frozen must. You can get it via mail order in the US, probably also in Canada.

In lieu of that, a kit may be a good next step.

 

[Ebonheart]

I'd say start off on a kit, but juice is a nice middle of the road option (that's how I started a few years back). Cali juice is in stock everywhere right now at reasonable prices.

 

[jh0330]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.
I reallllly wanted to go out get some fresh grapes from a farm to support local farmers and produce, and thought it would be a great activity with friends.

I found a local store that sells wine grape juice from California
http://bosafoods.com/wine-making-grapes-juice/
which I thought could be a great option too.

Kits seem like another awesome option but it feels less exciting for some reason. I have experience with winemaking as I have my first batch of blackberry wine (1.5months since pitching yeast) so I feel fairly confident. I really want this to be an opportunity that I can enjoy with a few close friends.

Number 1...slow down.
Do you have all the necessary equipment, supplies, chemicals and test devices to make all grape wine?

Kits are already pH balanced, SO2 correct and have the correct tannins and sugars. Also, you dont have to crush kits.

Good luck, I figured wine grapes would be easy to get in Vancouver.

Hi, thanks for the response.
Yea, perhaps I am rushing into things but grape season is almost over! ><
I have experience with blackberry wine but I really want to make something better.
I bought myself 12 single-gallon jugs (wanting to experient), 3gallon carboy, one giant and one 2.5gallon fermenting buckets. I have a hydrometer and siphon, I have campden tablets for SO2, acid blend, and it my house is always 72~82degrees fahrenheit.
I need to buy a pH meter (there are so many options but I am told pH can be adjusted post fermentation), the yeast(I will need to do a bit more research for type), nutrients, and I'm thinking of bentonite (but maybe this time chitosan and kieselsol for experience) for clearing. I am also thinking of purchasing an acid test kit or titration equipment.

I was thinking crushing the grapes would be the fun part! I was planning on putting my friends at work just using my two potato mashers and then bag the solids in a paint strainer with a clean rock in it to keep it from floating up.

I thought finding grapes would be easy too but I am new to this hobby and really don't know where to start. I found lots of local vineyards and called a few but they all seem to only sell table grapes not suitable for wine. I can find table grapes fairly easily but wine grapes I don't know. It will take a lot of calling around. I was able to find wine grape juice which I was thinking could be a good alternative but I still have a desire to crush fresh locally grown grapes. haha

Another option to fresh grapes would be frozen must. You can get it via mail order in the US, probably also in Canada.

In lieu of that, a kit may be a good next step.

Hi there, thanks for your opinion.
I think I found something exactly to what you were saying!
http://bosafoods.com/wine-making-grapes-juice/
this place is close to where I live and they sell all different sorts of wine grape juice from California!

I just have a weird feeling that kits will be boring -more like work for some weird reason. I feel like I have a good enough understanding in the steps to make wine without instructions -hopefully.
I feel like juice is a more exciting option than to kits but would you still recommend a kit over juice? (I feel like a kit is like buying a bottle of wine -not special)
Are kits that great?

I'd say start off on a kit, but juice is a nice middle of the road option (that's how I started a few years back). Cali juice is in stock everywhere right now at reasonable prices.

Hi there thanks for the input.
I found a place locally selling California juice

I really have a desire to crush fresh locally grown grapes with my close friends but I am also tempted to make this another project for myself with all these wine grape types I can get with juice!
I learnt a lot from making my first blackberry wine and feel like I have a decent understanding of making wine but of course, there is still a huge gap that could use improvement.

Now, I am contemplating on kits versus fresh grapes VERSUS juice. lol

 

[barbiek]

Although you think your ready but go with the kit all the adjustments have already been made and take note in the order of which additions are made fi: write down what you added and when not just say packet 1 or packet2 one wine is not enough experience

 

[heatherd]

I say go for it and try an all grape batch!!! Some folks would say to start with fresh grapes to learn the "real" way to make wine. It may be that you never want to do anything else.

 

[TomK-B]

I'd suggest you go to this page on the MoreWine web site: http://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals . Download and read the manuals on Red and/or White Winemaking. Those are excellent places to start. And they're free. You might also want some of their other manuals, too.

 

[jh0330]

Although you think your ready but go with the kit all the adjustments have already been made and take note in the order of which additions are made fi: write down what you added and when not just say packet 1 or packet2 one wine is not enough experience

Hey barbiek thanks, its always nice to receive input from you.
I was really looking forward to crushing grapes lol but, sigh, you recommend kits for me too...
You've seen my blackberry wine thread, I think you have a good understanding of where I'm at. I am pretty detailed with my log and have a general understanding of the steps (missing pH and TA test but I have experience in university chemistry so I know what this is and how).

My physics professor always said, you don't know what you don't know unless you really know that you know or don't know. Maybe this is what you and everyone is trying to say lol. Maybe my enthusiasm is surpassing my ability.

I say go for it and try an all grape batch!!! Some folks would say to start with fresh grapes to learn the "real" way to make wine. It may be that you never want to do anything else.

Yay! Thanks. To be honest this is what I wanted to hear haha. I am a just a bit scared to get a failed batch. I wonder how other people with similar experience/knowledge as me were able to do.

I'd suggest you go to this page on the MoreWine web site: http://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals . Download and read the manuals on Red and/or White Winemaking. Those are excellent places to start. And they're free. You might also want some of their other manuals, too.

Thank you so much for that golden link!
I just read the entire red manual -75 pages and there's so much more I can read!
Very interesting stuff!
I was able see that I could expect almost all these steps and also learnt about the MLF process and benefits in the process. Mmm lactic acid lol It sounds very yummy, interesting, and doesn't sound very difficult either. I would love to try this to at least a gallon of my batch in the future.

 

[ceeaton]

I just got my first all grape batch to the carboy (pressed). Don't let people talk you out of doing an all grape batch. I've only been making wine since last November. Many of my earlier batches were from ingredients I could find at the grocery store. My peach/mango batch is quite drinkable, so even without a lot of knowledge it worked out okay.

The most you have to lose is the cost of the grapes if things don't work out well. You seem to have a grip on the science part of it, and with the help of people on this forum I think you will be fine. Just keep sharing and they will help keep you going down the correct path. Good luck and I am looking forward to following your progress with your many posts.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I am with Craig ^^

I have been a winemaker for over 12 years now - and this last 2 months or so is my 1st time I decided to try and make a kit wine.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50428

So I guess I started backwards like most people -
But with all the knowledge on this forum - I am sure it will be more than drinkable !!!

 

[barbiek]

When I started this hobby I made wine from fresh fruit it was a couple years before I did a kit and that was cuz I didn't have access to the grapes needed to make my favorites didn't know I could just order them lol I'm glad I started out like I did though. Now I make wine from fresh or frozen fruits, kits, juice buckets, and hopeful my own grapes next year. Determination is what keeps me going. And you seem determined and that to me is all you need. I'm a hands on learner but you will probably need some test equipment at least get some ph strips! Their accuracy is a bit off but you'll get an idea. I'm not saying you can't do it if your determined enough its when someone tells me I can't or shouldn't do is when I do my best to prove them wrong so prove us wrong will ya? Hope this adds to your enthusiasm and determination good luck and keep us posted

Barbie

 

[kevinlfifer]

Start with a kit but add some fresh grapes (5-10 lbs or so) to pump it up. It will increase your batch size, so prepare to have 6.5-7 gal clearing. That volume of grapes will not throw off your acidity numbers or brix, as long as they are ripe.