Finishing/Cellaring Tannins - my personal observation

[joeswine]

tannins

THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD IF YOUR DOING GRAPES OR MAYBE,MAYBE, FRESH JUICE BUT WHAT A BOUT KITS,NOT EVERY WINE MAKER CAN DO WHAT THE OTHERS CAN AND NOT EVERY WINEMAKER HAS BARRELS BUT WANTS TO TRY AND ACHIEVE THE SAME TEXTURE AND STRUCTURE AND FOR ME THE ANSWER WAS IN THE SECONDARY AFTER THE BASE WINE WENT THROUGH PRIMARY AT THAT STAGE I CAN THEN BUILD UPON IT.

 

[manvsvine]

Durring the fermentation stage you have the grape skins, pulp, seeds in the fermenter with the juice. this is your opportunity to make the fruit shine , the trick is to maximise the natural gifts the grape has to offer.

what the winemaker has to do is let the fruit show its best without masking it to the point where the additions speak more than the grapes do.

I think it was Daniel Pambianachi who said that your additions should be like a makeup on a beautiful woman. If done right you won't know they are there , it just enhances the natural beauty.

the focus on fermentation stage is so that these additions are there when the yeast and the grapes are and able to be metabolised and integrated by the live yeast and also so that they are there to interact with the grapes at the time when the grapes are releasing their gifts into the must of the wine.

if making a juice pail or wine kit with no skins you still have the benefit of the active yeast so I would still focus on the yeast fermentation stage for your enhancements. The live yeast will metabolise some of the wood extracts that are present in the tannin product and aid to its integration into the wine. and with added skin tannins the live yeast during the alcohol ferment assist in the formation of the long chain bonds and colour preservation. (you will see this because your lees will be less pink. ) but you should add the low end of the manufacturers recommended amount because you don't have actual skins in the must releasing compounds , you just have those extracted during the extraction process the kit or juice went thorough , a finite amount.

for carboysthe lack of micro ox in a carboy means you don't have o2 to soften your tannins and fatten mouthfeel, so get the yeast to do it for you!

anyone who wants to try this can hydrate a kit , split the kit between two 3 gallon carboys and add the tannin to one just before pitching the yeast and add it to the other after stabilizing the wine. let them age and bottle and try them side by side .
make up your own mind. my intent here is to share industy's most common practice.

The fermentation stage is a special combination of microbiological chemical reactions , it only happens once this magical combination of events. you don't want to miss it.
make the active biochemistry work for you

 

[geek]

manvsvine, does this only apply to wine made from grape, not fruit wines.

 

[manvsvine]

it somewhat parallels red and white wine practice for dark fruits that are tannin compatible yes . for light fruits like strawberries and peaches , inactivated yeast products to enhance fruity esters is probably a better route.

Sebastian

 

[jensmith]

I make fresh fruit wines. I almost always add tannins pre ferment. I just use those cheep generic tannins. The results are well worth the addition.
Just my two cents...


Sent from my iPod touch using Wine Making

 

[Julie]

I make fresh fruit wines. I almost always add tannins pre ferment. I just use those cheep generic tannins. The results are well worth the addition.
Just my two cents...


Sent from my iPod touch using Wine Making

those are called sacrificial tannins

"Also natural components of plants, tannins are complex polyphenolic compounds that precipitate proteins (as in the tanning of leather). In wine, tannins may come from grape components (skins, seeds, stems) or from wood used during fermentation or aging (chips, sticks, or barrels, usually oak). Because tannins are natural compounds already present in traditional winemaking, they are also allowed as addition products in prepared and purified form. Some, such as Tanin VR Color® or FT Rouge Soft®, are targeted at least partly to help with color stability in red wines. Others, like Tannin Riche®, are referred to as “finishing tannins” and are intended for use later in the wine cycle to enhance aromas and flavors.

When grapes are crushed and soaked, colored pigments called anthocyanins are released into the juice. Some of these combine with grape tannins to form soluble compounds that remain in the wine, providing color. Other reaction products, however, are less soluble and drop out of the wine, taking color with them. Purified tannin products are formulated to provide “sacrificial tannins” that will take the place of grape tannins that otherwise might precipitate. In so doing, they help maintain a higher concentration of the soluble grape tannin/anthocyanin complexes in the developing wine. So as the color is released from the skin cells, with or without added enzymes, the sacrificial tannins help keep the color in solution and maintain its presence on into the finished wine.

Because of the release cycle of the native compounds in grapes, the recommended tannin addition step is at or just after the onset of yeast fermentation. Tannin powder may be sprinkled directly on top of the rising cap and mixed in during the first punchdown of a new red wine fermentation. Use rates can vary widely, so you may need to experiment on your wines for best effects. Typical ranges are from about 50 to 250 g/1,000 pounds of fruit."

http://winemakermag.com/1244-red-wine-color-stability-techniques

 

[manvsvine]

Scott Labs fermentation handbook is a good source of information on all kinds of wine products .

http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottLabsHandbook2013.pdf

this is their FAQ on the tannins they carry

"When is the best time to add tannins ? How do I add them ?
Tannins are best added early in the winemaking process. In red wine,
an addition during the fermentation stage integrates tannin into
the wine and offers the greatest opportunity for color stability and
increased mid-palate structure. They can be added at the crusher
or to the tank during the first pump-over, depending on the grape
quality (rotten vs. sound). Additional tannin can be added with each
pump-over. If adding to a white wine, add directly to the grapes at
the crusher or to the tank during a tank mixing.

I am using tannin and enzymes . Will SO2 interfere with my
additions ?
Using all three products together is fine, but timing is important!
High SO2 content can inhibit enzyme activity. Do not add SO2 and
enzymes at the same time. It is okay to add enzymes after the SO2
is adequately dispersed OR to add SO2 after the enzymes are adequately
dispersed. Follow with a tannin addition six to eight hours
later. When enzymes are not being used, add SO2 first, allow to
disperse, then follow with the tannin addition.

Can I use tannins on white juice and wine ?
Yes, a tannin addition in white juice may be beneficial to remove
off-aromas, to improve clarification, to inhibit laccase activity from
Botrytis or rot, or to serve as an anti-oxidant. We recommend using
either Uva’Tan, Uva’Tan Soft, FT Blanc or FT Blanc Soft. Tannins
can also be added later to wine to improve mid-palate structure
or softness.

Why should I use tannins on my “premium ” red grapes ?
Tannins can be used to protect the color and phenolic structure of
your wines. For the easiest and most efficient integration of tannins,
add FT Rouge or FT Rouge Soft at the crusher. If needed, an addition
of Uva’Tan, Uva’Tan Soft or Estate prior to aging can help reinforce
phenolic balance. During long maturation in barrels, Estate will help
prevent excessive oxidation that can result in loss of structure and
freshness. For improved SO2 management add small amounts of
Estate (5-7.5 g/hL) during each racking.

Will tannin additions increase color in low -color grape varieties ?
Tannins do not add color to the must of low color grapes. Recent
research indicates that early addition of tannins such as FT Rouge
allows them to bind up available proteins. This preserves the grapes'
own natural tannins, making them available to bind with the grapes’
anthocyanins and thereby provides increased color stability.


Why not add oak chips ? Aren ’t they a source of accessible tannin ?
Oak chips are a source of ellagic (wood) tannin. The level of tannin
available will differ depending upon the wood source and the treatment
regime. When using oak based products, macromolecules
(lignin, cellulose, hemicellulose, etc.) other than oak will be extracted.
The oak based addition may help mask flavors, provide some oxidative
protection and leave an oak finish, but they will NOT improve
mid-palate structure. By contrast, the combination of wood and proanthocyanidic
tannins in FT Rouge or FT Rouge Soft will help improve
structure and color stability.

What if I did not add enough tannin during the primary
fermentation ?
If more tannin structure and flavor is desired post-fermentation,
make additions with Complex or Estate. Addition is best before barrel
aging when tannins can be incorporated into the wine and when
oxidation and polymerization are slow. Refresh, Riche and Riche
Extra are the best tannins to use prior to bottling (3-6 weeks) when
a bit of oak influence is desired. Any of these tannins can be used
throughout winemaking, depending on the desired effect. Bench
trials are required to determine the best tannin for a particular wine
or style.

Will adding tannins inhibit barrel aging ?
Tannins protect wine from oxidation during barrel aging. The wood
tannins extracted from a new barrel protect the wine from over-oxidation
during the slow process needed for tannin polymerization and
wine development. When using old barrels, indigenous tannin may
have been completely leached out. A small tannin addition of 5-10 g/hL
will act as an anti-oxidant and help protect the wine. Attaining a good
phenolic profile will slow the maturation process and still protect
the wine.

Can tannins help remove undesirable astringency or bitterness ?
Yes. Over-astringency is caused by an imbalance of tannin molecules
or by insufficiently bound tannin complexes. By adding a more
refined, highly polymerized tannin to the wine, the imbalance can be
corrected and the perception of astringency or bitterness reduced.
This frequently improves the perception of fruit.

What if I only want to use pure grape tannin in my wine ?
Uva’Tan (tannins from grape skins and seeds) and Uva’Tan Soft
(tannins from grape skins only) are comprised of 100% grape tannin.
All other tannins are sourced from a combination of grapes,
exotic woods, oak or chestnut."


Scott labs has fermentation tannins, Cellaring tannins , finishing tannins, and for those who like a chewy parker wine, OTT tannins (yes over the top for those who don't want smooth and integrated)

 

[tonyt]

This has really been a helpful thread. I usually do pre fermentation tannins. Then after barrel aging I decide if I need a finishing tannin. I think now I will change that approach and decide pre barreling if I need finishing tannin in addition to the fermentation tannins. Especially since both of my barrels are for the most part neutral.

 

[manvsvine]

if you taste the wine and it needs it , adding some cellaring tannin while barreling will allows the tannins to get some micro oxygenation and time to integrate into the wine and form those nice long chains for better mouthfeel.

and also reduce oxidization

I usually wait until its in the barrel for two months before tasting and making any decisions on cellaring tannin additions.

I want to see how the wine is coming along first
after two months in the barrel some of the fermentation roughness , yeasty character and co2 should have dissipated and I have a better sense of the wine before adding anything else

most of the time I add nothing , or just some oak cubes