carboy levels keep dropping

[Ajmassa]

Anyone else experiencing a high amount of surface level drops in carboys lately? More than typical? My carboys are starting to think they’re barrels.

Not happening in every carboy, but most of them. Noticed a couple months ago, topped all up to just under the bung. A week later was same thing. Now a few weeks later they dropped yet again! About to top for the 3rd time on some of these. yet others none. go figure.
basement has been around 60° throughout. No barometer.

 

[CoteRotie]

The angels' share.... And they're drinking more these days.

I have nothing in carboys, but I have 2 barrels that do seem to need more topping than typical.

 

[Rice_Guy]

If I didn’t know better I would say you have smart mice.

 

[CDrew]

Hmmm. Any straws in the house?

That's way too much drop to be natural.

You have a wine rustler I think.

Maybe install a game camera down there in the basement.

 

[JohnW]

Any chance some of the corks are old and not sealing as well as they used to? Either that or your mice are having one big party

 

[crushday]

How has the ambient temperature of the room ard/or temperature of the must changed? I recently turned off the heater in my fermenting room, which is kept at 68 degrees. It's now 54 and I've seen pretty consistent must volume changes that you're illustrating. If I had to give my best guess, during fermentation/secondary the must was warmer than it is now.

Edit: I see you reported that the basement has been around 60 degrees throughout but I'm still leaning toward the temp of the must dropping from a lack of fermentation activity.

 

[Ajmassa]

it is definitely progressively getting colder over here. i’m sure the basement has gradually shifted down as well. This is what i assumed to be the cause.
i’ve only been noting the room temps based off quick looks at the stick on thermometers on the carboys— and they aren’t super accurate. I figured it was the temps, the ambient pressure, and also the lees and solids in the wine? newer stuff i think might be affected by these factors more, and maybe compact a little causing levels to decrease more? idk no clue

i mean, i’m used to some dropping. just been a lot and wondering if it’s the weather then are others noticing too?. my 50L barrel i just added a full liter. about 7 weeks since previous topping.

 

[Ajmassa]

If I didn’t know better I would say you have smart mice.

actually had a mouse dive into a ferment once. in a juice pail. found him floating on top (no lid or towel)- he died like a king lol.

guys at the shop were cool and hooked us up with a replacement juice bucket. since then the lesson was learned and we always used a loose lid with juice pails

 

[Ajmassa]

Any chance some of the corks are old and not sealing as well as they used to? Either that or your mice are having one big party

i thought that too. i used all vented bungs. They seem pretty sealed tho. still thought maybe could be contributing factor in some way. this got me thinking about utilizing solid bungs more often

 

[hounddawg]

AW,,,, come on dude,,, just use the game camera as mentioned by @CDrew ,,, but a wise man might just leave the tigers tail alone,
Dawg lol

 

[NorCal]

What impact would CO2 coming out of solution at higher temps have on the level of the wine?

 

[Ajmassa]

Hmmm. Any straws in the house?

That's way too much drop to be natural.

You have a wine rustler I think.

Maybe install a game camera down there in the basement.

hmmmm

really hope it’s the 37yr old and not the 13yr old! however those racking canes do look like giant straws! i know i’d be tempted

(full disclosure - i was tempted. and i did steal the old mans wine at that age. We had a garage band and would play a lot at our place. And those demi’s had spigots. some great memories there! .but for whatever reason my “13” was A LOt different than her 13.

 

[Rice_Guy]

not much

What impact would CO2 coming out of solution at higher temps have on the level of the wine?

The first picture is two hours in to degassing a 6.5 gallon carboy, the second picture is today.


! notes: * the head space when filled was about 125 ml, similar to now/ Wednesday.
* the “finished“ vacuum thursday was 17 inches when last pumped down, so the carboy is degassed.
* there is a check valve in the set up, in the first twelve hours/ when there is substantial CO2 the vacuum will decrease back to zero in under five minutes.
* degassing is a bulk material condition/ ie it takes roughly 12 hours for enough liquid mixing in the carboy to stabilize the 125 ml of ullage.

OPINION: a vacuum gauge is about $12 and holding a vacuum is the easiest test for if your wine is degassed

 

[VinesnBines]

You have a wine rustler I think.

Maybe install a game camera down there in the basement.

I suggest making a tiny mark on the stopper and carboy so you can see if the bung has been removed and replaced. What varieties are going down the most? Aged and degassed? Anyone selling wine out the back door?

That's a lot; I don't get that much out when testing/tasting.

 

[Fencepost]

Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation

 

[JohnW]

Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation

I think @Fencepost has the correct answer. When the room warms up this spring see if your levels rise back.

 

[MHSKIBUM]

I suggest making a tiny mark on the stopper and carboy so you can see if the bung has been removed and replaced. What varieties are going down the most? Aged and degassed? Anyone selling wine out the back door?

That's a lot; I don't get that much out when testing/tasting.

I use three plastic zip ties. One goes around the lip to hold the other two that criss cross on top to keep the bung firmly in place. You can get about 20 of them for $2 at the Dollar store. It also serves as a deterrent for wine thieves.
The level drops when you rerack.

 

[KCCam]

Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation

I've done that calculation as well, and was amazed at how much difference 1° can make. Note that the neck of the carboy acts like the narrow tube in a thermometer to amplify the effect of a small change in volume.

Careful you don't create a mess when things warm up and the levels start to rise! Assuming of course, temperature is the culprit, and not thieves.

 

[Ajmassa]

I use three plastic zip ties. One goes around the lip to hold the other two that criss cross on top to keep the bung firmly in place. You can get about 20 of them for $2 at the Dollar store. It also serves as a deterrent for wine thieves.
The level drops when you rerack.

lol. honestly tho i’m positive i don’t have any thieves. it’s not as if one day i noticed the levels all dropped significantly. i noticed it gradually drop over time. but then next thing i knew it would be much too low for comfort.

Everything’s been topped up. gonna mark the heights and keep my eye on it.

I've done that calculation as well, and was amazed at how much difference 1° can make. Note that the neck of the carboy acts like the narrow tube in a thermometer to amplify the effect of a small change in volume.

Careful you don't create a mess when things warm up and the levels start to rise! Assuming of course, temperature is the culprit, and not thieves.

fully anticipating a mess to clean up! wouldn’t be the first time.

 

[mainshipfred]

My vote is temperature although I can see the CO2 thing as a possibility although not to that extreme.