Cellar Craft Viognier clearing question

[RJB]

Good morning to all. I currently have a Showcase Viognier in the clearing stage - I have made this wine before (Jan 2011 IIRC), and do not recall having clearing problems. That first batch has all been consumed, and the natives are yelling for more (wife and her girlfriends.

At the time I racked this batch from secondary to clearing (9/10/12) it was already pretty clear. After racking I added all the necessary stuff per the instructions, then added the K&C - the wine clouded up somewhat, probably due to stirring after the K&C additions. After 12 days it was still not totally clear (I define clear as being able to shine a high-power flashlight through the wine, and not seeing a visible light beam, ie, no visible stuff in suspension).

So... i racked it again (9/22/12), leaving much gunk behind, then added another batch of K&C. Same result, not clear. So... i racked it again (9/29/12) and added a third batch of K&C. ie, it has had K&C applied three times, and is still somewhat cloudy.

Questions...
1 - anyone else had this experience with CC Viognier or other CC whites?
2 - does it compromise the wine if you apply several batches of K&C?
3 - do I have a patience problem?

thanks in advance
Bob, Maple Valley, WA

 

[TonyP]

I'll answer 3 first. Don't we all? It's the bane of wine making to sit and look at a batch for months or even years.

I've done CC whites without clearing issues. Concerning adding clearing agents, I wouldn't do anything now except check the SG. If it's stable the yeast is no longer an issue. To say the obvious, cloudy wine is only the visual result of stuff in the wine. It sounds like the wine is settling and as long as you continue to have sediment accumulating, the wine is clearing whether you see it or not. No yeast should mean the cloudiness is finite and should diminish over time. That's the old fashioned way.

By the way, I take it you degassed.

Tony P.

 

[joeswine]

Clearing

PATIENTS IS A VIRTUE,LET IT SET ,LET IT SETTLE OUT,IF YOU USED SUPPERKLEER,i WOULD SAY 1WEEK 2 TO 2 WEEKS TOPS,IT COULD BE A PECTIN HAZES,LET IT SET, WALK AWAY,THEN LETS US KNOW,THE WINE TYPE YOUR MAKING i HAVE MADE IN A LOT OF ,GREAT WINE FOR ANYTIME,SO GIVE IT TIME IN A CARBOY.

 

[ibglowin]

I had the exact same problem with my CC Showcase Viognier 2 years ago. Yep this one will take PATIENCE. I added a second batch of Super Kleer but i think what did the trick was just time and warming up the carboy to ~72 degrees which helps speed things up.

Do NOT add any more fining agents. Each time you add one you strip a little more flavor out of the wine.

 

[robie]

I agree with what was written. As Tony said, make sure there is no fizz (CO2) left in the wine. Seems like no two batches of the same wine ever finish out quite the same. Sounds more like just a wait and wait a little longer issue.

 

[rjb222]

Good morning to all. I currently have a Showcase Viognier in the clearing stage - I have made this wine before (Jan 2011 IIRC), and do not recall having clearing problems. That first batch has all been consumed, and the natives are yelling for more (wife and her girlfriends

At the time I racked this batch from secondary to clearing (9/10/12) it was already pretty clear. After racking I added all the necessary stuff per the instructions, then added the K&C - the wine clouded up somewhat, probably due to stirring after the K&C additions. After 12 days it was still not totally clear (I define clear as being able to shine a high-power flashlight through the wine, and not seeing a visible light beam, ie, no visible stuff in suspension).

So... i racked it again (9/22/12), leaving much gunk behind, then added another batch of K&C. Same result, not clear. So... i racked it again (9/29/12) and added a third batch of K&C. ie, it has had K&C applied three times, and is still somewhat cloudy.

Questions...
1 - anyone else had this experience with CC Viognier or other CC whites?
2 - does it compromise the wine if you apply several batches of K&C?
3 - do I have a patience problem?

thanks in advance
Bob, Maple Valley, WA

Are you referring to a cellar craft kit or a cellar classic kit from RJS? I would have some input if it is a RJS kit but if it is a cellar craft kit there should be a 1-800 number on the help line explain the problem I am positive being a reputable company they have run into this problem before and have a solution to it. With A RJS white occasionally we run into a white that has this issue. I always ad one more Kieselsol this will most times drop out the haze very quickly.

 

[RJB]

This is the Cellar Craft Showcase Viognier. It is excellent if aged over one year.
Re the degassing, I have not attempted this yet - I degass using a Vacuvin (yep it works, but again, you gotta be patient, it can take regular pumping over several days). I am concerned that using the vacuvin at this stage will stir up all the gunk that has settled on the sides and bottom, and return me to cloud city. So... I will wait... wait... wait until the wine clears. Then i'll degass.

Of course, I could be all wet.

Bob

 

[rjb222]

RJB I do not believe this is a gas issue. I beleive it is a pectic haze.The reason I recomend the 1-800 number is with each package with a two part clearing system there is a postive and a negative charge added. It is these charges that actually aid in the clearing process. and each manufacturer uses thier own two stage agents. So adding the right one is very important so as you do not create a clearing haze. A clearing haze will never clear. You can have patiants and over time your wine will drop out on its own but with the righ charged agent it will clear over night.

 

[robie]

This is the Cellar Craft Showcase Viognier. It is excellent if aged over one year.
Re the degassing, I have not attempted this yet - I degass using a Vacuvin (yep it works, but again, you gotta be patient, it can take regular pumping over several days). I am concerned that using the vacuvin at this stage will stir up all the gunk that has settled on the sides and bottom, and return me to cloud city. So... I will wait... wait... wait until the wine clears. Then i'll degass.

Of course, I could be all wet.

Bob

Normally one should always degas before attempting to clear. The CO2 will trap the sediment. Also, make sure the wine is not below 70F and clearing will go better.

Concerning the VacuVin, use a drill stirrer to get most of the CO2 out. Once no more bubbles come out easily, switch over to the VacuVin just to finish it off.

 

[RJB]

Yesterday I fitted the vacuvin, and that helped speed up the clearing. Typically i do not use the vacuvin until the wine has fully cleared, as I have had some instances where the vacuvin has lifted whatever gunk has already cleared from the bottom of the carboy, rendering the wine no longer clear.

thanks to all for the help

bob

 

[RJB]

Well, looks like it finally cleared. Thanks for the help folks, it just took its sweet time.

 

[ibglowin]

Whoo hoo! Congrats!

 

[saddlebronze]

I want to second the idea of not over fining. I had a bucket of Viogner and it would not clear so I re fined and it lost all flavor. Was worthless and had to dump. One of my only total failures.

 

[Boatboy24]

Very nice! I love those Showcase Collection labels.

 

[RJB]

Seems like every batch is a little different, even from previous batches of the same type of wine. Happy to say this one has not lost its flavour, and I could darn near drink it right now. That said, the CC Viognier seems to mature nicely, gets some structure and loses some of that fruit-bomb-ness.
And re the labels, the only problem i have with them is that they can easily get air bubbles underneath, unless you take a lot of care.

Bob