SG 1.200, when to change from primary

[Wine-o-Dale]

I just started a Black Raspberry and peach wine. I used grape concentrate too. I added enough sugar to bring the SG to 1.200 and want to leave this wine a little sweet... like 1.010 to 1.020 or so. My question is when should I move it from the primary to the secondary. Most of the time I wait until 1.010, but I want to end the wine there after the secondary. Any suggestions?

Thank You

Edited by: Wine-o-Dale

 

[grapeman]

Is that a typo Dale? I'm not sure if you will get fermentation to begin if your starting SG is 1.200. Did you mean 1.120? My hydrometers don't even go up to 1.200. That would be like 25% ABV. Like we have said before, it is very hard to end a fermentation once begun reliably.

 

[Wade E]

I hope that is a type-o as if not if it even fermented to a yeasts full capability you would finish up at around 1.060! How do you plan on stopping the fermentation or did you use a yeast with a tolerance of 13-14 as that is about right if your SG was 1.120. Please tell me that you didnt use a high tolerance yeast an plan on adding sorbate and k-meta to stop it with out cold stabilizing it as it would take a dose of k-meta not recommmended to do that.

Edited by: wade

 

[Wine-o-Dale]

Yes... sorry about that.. its 1.120 to start. so when should I transfer to secondary so I can end up with a little sweetness.... say about 1.020 or so.

Also... have not added yeast yet, put the camden tablets in there today and will start yeast tomorrow.

Edited by: Wine-o-Dale

 

[Wade E]

What yeast are you using, a lower tolerance 1? Either way I would rack at 1.025. Just transferring will not stop the yeast from finishing there job and actually will usually get it going better with the slight addition of oxygen.

 

[grapeman]

Like Wade says, transfering to secondary will not causes a wine to finish and have some sweetness left. You let it finish fermenting after transfering and then stabilize. Chances are good it will be dry and you will need to resweeten After stabilizing with potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate.

 

[Wade E]

At that high a starting SG and depending on what yeast you use you might finish off with some sweetness if you are using a yeast with a low abv tolerance. If not using a low tolerance yeast then you are going to have a wine that will be very hot(lots of alcohol) which is going to hide the fruit flavor for awhile and need lots of aging.

 

[smurfe]

I'll add that every time I have tried to do this the wine has fermented to dry even using a low tolerance yeast like a Cote du Blanc. You will get more consistency planning on fermenting to dry and properly back sweetening. As Wade suggested, if it does ferment to dry, you are going to have a very hot wine that won't be a real pleasure to drink. If you need examples, come on over and I'll demonstrate a few for you.

 

[Wine-o-Dale]

Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate that.

The yeast I'm using is Red Star, Pasteur Red... says active dry wine yeast. I used half of it in previous batch and using the other half this time. Can you just stop the fermentation when the sweetness goes down to 1.020 or so? with Camden tablets. I really want the flavors of the fruits to come out, but hope I didn't mess it up with so much sugar. My thought was that I would start with a higher SG and stop the fermentation with a higher SG and not have to back sweeten.

 

[grapeman]

Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate that.

The yeast I'm using is Red Star, Pasteur Red... says active dry wine yeast. I used half of it in previous batch and using the other half this time. Can you just stop the fermentation when the sweetness goes down to 1.020 or so? with Camden tablets. I really want the flavors of the fruits to come out, but hope I didn't mess it up with so much sugar. My thought was that I would start with a higher SG and stop the fermentation with a higher SG and not have to back sweeten.

In a word... NO. You cannot stop the fermentation without excessively high use of campden tablets which would probably be unsafe.

 

[Wade E]

Without buying expensive filtering systems to sterile filter your wine there is only 1 other option and that is to cold stabilize it. This procedure is best done in winter when you can put your carboy out in the cold. It will require a fridge turned way down or a freezer with a thermostat you can turn up as it should be done at temps of just above freezing. You would stop fermentation by chilling the wine down to just above freezing for a few weeks and then immediately rack and filter off all sediment and add k-meta and sorbate ad even this isnt fool proof. I recommend starting your wine at a much lower SG next time and then sweetening back. Not doing it this way may result in a wine that stops before you want it to leaving a much sweeter wine then desired or a wine that goes past where you want and gives you way to high an abv and you will have to sweeten back anyway and the high abv will hide most of the flavor of a subtle fruit. That Red Star Yeast has a tolerance of around 16% abv which means that you are most likely going to ferment dry.

Edited by: wade

 

[grapeman]

Cold stabilization is the procedure Wade describes and it is used to lower Tartaric acid in wines. In general, winemakers don't try to stop a fermentation early- the results are too unpredictable. Like Wade says- please follow tested and true procedures and start with a lower SG, ferment to dry and then re-sweeten.

 

[Wine-o-Dale]

yeah... I guess I messed up the must.... Not looking forward to tasting it now. Good thing I only have 3-gallons of it. Live and learn. I assume I will have to bottle for a year or so for it to have any kind of taste from the fruit?

 

[Wade E]

Let her go dry and back sweeten using either simple sugar syrup, wine conditioner which I dont recommend, or a sweetener made up of juice and condensed on stove top by simmering. The last 1 is what I do and it helps to bring back some flavor lost by fermentation and too much abv.

 

[univity]

Dont pitch it though - a buddy of mine made some wine that tasted like diesel fuel - but after letting it sit for a year and a half it was as smooth a Billy Dee Williams - and knocked u right on ur butt - you very well may be suprised after aging - its fun playing chemist with your liver!

 

[grapeman]

If you got on this right away, you could double the batch- either with juice or some will gasp- water. That will bring the ABV down to a reasonable level and will at least make the batch drinkable although a bit thin on body. You could sweeten with condesned juice like Wade suggests afterwards and that would help with the flavor and the body a bit. You might end up with a pretty good wine.

 

[Wine-o-Dale]

Great idea Appleman. Thanks very much! I added some grape concentrate, but it was Welchs and it brought it down to 1.100. It was still at 1.120 before I added it. I will probably buy another two tomorrow and add it again. What is a good starting point for wines made with fruit so the alcohol does not take away the fruit flavors. I'm up to 4.5 gallons. I should add more... correct?

 

[Wade E]

I and many others like to keep our SG's at around 1.085 for fruit wines.

 

[grapeman]

You are going to need unconcentrated juice to bring it down. The juice concentrate has a lot of sugars in it and won't cut the SG enough. If you have gone from 1.200 to 1.120, you have dropped the equivalent of a 1.080 wine or about 10%ABV(a bit less). It is probably time to cut it with some water to bring up to 6 gallons and let it finish as dry as it will go and hope for the best. Good luck. Hope it turns out OK for you.

 

[Wade E]

Maybe you could find an unsweetened juice at a local health food store although like appleman said you will still need to water it down as even that will have some sugar in it.


Edited by: wade