Oak chips

[rob]

I know this has been brought up before but little replies. What is everyone's thoughts on leaving oak chips in the secondary for long term? Some of you have said after two weeks most of the flavor has been taken out and there is no reason to rack it off, most of the kids have you put it in the primary only while fermenting, I don't believe this is long enough, so I have started to add to the secondary!

 

[Rocky]

Rob, I don't see any reason it would not work. Though I normally use oak cubes, I sometimes use oak chips in my barrels when aging. They are a little harder to clean out than cubes, but it can be done. I believe oak is a matter of taste in wines and I like more rather than less.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I agree with Rocky, it is a matter of taste, as long as you can remove it if the intensity reaches your desired level of oak, I see no problem.
If I'm using chips, I tend to put them in a nylon drawstring boiling bag, so I can remove them quickly and it is easier for cleanup.
Lately, I've been using oak infusion sticks, they don't impart as much oak as fast as chips do, you can control it better in my personal opinion.
I am an oak type of guy, have fun with it.

 

[ibglowin]

Oak chips are not toasted so if your looking for any of the flavor notes in your wine that comes with toasted oak, "these aren't the (droids) or chips your looking for".....

No problem leaving them in until they sink to the bottom. They will extract in ~7 days.

 

[BobF]

Mike - I have stashes of American and French oak chips, both of which are toasted. Am I missing something?

 

[ibglowin]

I guess I misspoke and I should clarify, chips are toasted (oven) but don't have that burned "char" on them like cubes or beans do so the flavor profile they impart will be very different (one vs the other).

Just make sure you use the one that will impart the profile you are looking for.

 

[rob]

Mike, that is great info, I am betting hardly anyone would know or thought of that!

 

[BobF]

Makes sense, Mike. Thanx for clarifying

 

[ibglowin]

Here is a little blob from Shea Comfort, the "Yeast Whisperer" (LOL) He came to our Vine and Wine Conference last year and spoke.

Summing-up, some applicable generalizations of toast levels on oak:

• The lower the toast, the more tannins (“structure”) and lactones (“wood-like” and “coconut”) will be present in each of the oaks.
• The higher the toast, the more spice and smoke notes will be present
• The deeper the toast, the more deep the caramel tones will be (moving into butterscotch at medium plus).
• Vanilla will increase up through a medium-plus toast and then decrease with a heavy toast and char.
• American oak will be more aromatic, but French oak will give more structure (Hungarian will give less than the French but more than the American).
• The greater the toast level, the lower the lactones (“wood” and “coconut”) for all three woods.

Medium plus is the most complex of all of the toast levels, and the most popular. Depending on the wine being made, this may or may not be a good thing!

 

[BobF]

Mike, that is great info, I am betting hardly anyone would know or thought of that!

I certainly never thought about 'char'

Now I'm gonna' have to hunt down cubes

 

[ibglowin]

More from Shea regarding the use of Chips vs Cubes or Beans:

Chips:

When comparing cubes and staves to chips, it is important to keep in mind the following: chips are often made from lower quality, un-seasoned wood and depending on the source this will most definitely come through in the finished wine with various degrees of harshness. That being said, there are exceptions and some sources do get their chips from actual cooperages - instead of a cabinet shop or furniture mill - and the flavors and aromas from these can be quite good. However, the reason why these should be viewed as a tool rather than a complete oaking solution is directly related to their thin shape and size.

During toasting, due to their lack of mass chips react quite quickly to the heat and they all toast to a comparable level, leaving them monochromatic with no gradations of color or toast level. Since, when toasting oak, what you see is also what you taste, this lack of gradations unfortunately translates into a lack of complexity in the toasted chips final flavors and aromas. In addition to the toasting issues, the smaller size of the chips makes for a full release of all of their compounds in a very short period of time. This may be great for quickly getting toasted oak components into a fermentation, indeed this is probably the single best use for the chips. However when the ideal scenario is a slow and steady extraction rate over a period of several months to a year or so, unless winemakers are in need of a quick fix, they should probably forego the chips in favor of the cubes or staves.

 

[ibglowin]

MoreWine is your friend.

They sell 1lb packages of just about everthing you could ever want. Plus the packages are resealable and they stay fresh for years as long as you seal them back up and squeeze out all the air. I have been layering oak for a couple of years now. I will oak with the Vadai for 4-5 months then back to carboy and add 1 ounce of Med+ French oak beans.

Man talk about adding complexity to your wines!

I certainly never thought about 'char'

Now I'm gonna' have to hunt down cubes

 

[Pumpkinman]

Mike, nice info, thanks!

 

[GreginND]

Ditto! Great information. Thanks.

I have only used oak cubes so far in my small home winemaking. They work ok. My friend who has a commercial winery uses the infusion spirals and raves about them. I have to say his wines are well balanced.

 

[rob]

Right, thanks

 

[CCR]

I'm a newbie. I have toasted French Oak chips to put into my 2 month old carboy of Cab Sauv. (better late than never?) Should they be cleaned via boiling first, or soaked in water with Campden? I saw both of those options on googles Or is it ok to add them dry, just out of the bag? I just did the boiling thing and they are cooling down now.

 

[Runningwolf]

I add mine right out of the bag, good question

 

[Runningwolf]

Mike - I have stashes of American and French oak chips, both of which are toasted. Am I missing something?

Bob, I heard an ideal flavor is to blend the American with the french 50/50 for a great taste. I have not tried it yet.

 

[tonyt]

I'm a newbie. I have toasted French Oak chips to put into my 2 month old carboy of Cab Sauv. (better late than never?) Should they be cleaned via boiling first, or soaked in water with Campden? I saw both of those options on googles Or is it ok to add them dry, just out of the bag? I just did the boiling thing and they are cooling down now.

All you have to do is open the bag and toss them in. I usually leave chips in during seconsary then rack off of them and do cubes, staves or spirals in bulk aging.

 

[joeswine]

layering

unless you have a oak barrel less then 5 years old,learn to do oaking in layers,it works with great resultes...