My Second Batch....Altered Dragon's Blood.

[RhynoMakingWineO]

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[vernsgal]

you are in need of Seth

 

[dangerdave]

The one I have in my files is an article by Ben Rotter on the form and function of Sulphur Dioxide in wine. In the section on SO2 Loss, he mentions the SO2 reacting with hydrogen perodixe to form sulphuric acid, but refers to this as part of the "oxidative protection of SO2".

You can find the article, here: http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/SO2/SO2.htm

But like I said, the quantites (which he does not reference) are probably very small, and provide protection to the wine rather than harm to the drinker. This however, is the reaction of SO2 on the naturally occurring tiny amounts of peroxide present in the must. I don't know how much acid is produced when higher concentrations of peroxide are added.

A lot of people have used the peroxide treatment for their wines without incident, but I would still prefer people don't put that stuff in their wine, and I will never use it in mine no matter how bad it gets. But that's me. I don't know enough to tell you what you must do/not do. I'm just telling you what I do/don't do.

 

[jamesngalveston]

thats why i drink Luzianne...
matter of fact i think i will start adding it to my wine...
maybe throw in 1/2 tsp of hydrogen peroxide, and then some kind of carbonation and see what happens.
heck you never know..it may be excellent...

 

[jamesngalveston]

good wisdom dave......

 

[seth8530]

you are in need of Seth

Did someone summon me?! *poof*

No, I haven't done this before, with wine.

I have Oxidized a number of other things, in my work, and some of my hobbies. Because of my understanding "Oxidation", it was an easy "Yes."

Now I agree, to drink straight Hydrogen Peroxide, would be bad.

But when a controlled amount cancels out the sulfites, I'd guess that they are equally gone or missing.

Now, there could be a byproduct, that I am not seeing. As you suggested, there might be "Sulphuric Acid."

I doubt that there are the appropriate amount of Molecules present, and I really, REALLY doubt that there is enough "Energy" to transform the molecules into Sulfuric Acid. (H2SO4)

I can only imagine how many Joules, that it takes to combine 4 Oxygen Molecules to 1 Sulfur Molecule.

I haven't ever made or produced Sulfuric Acid, so I could be wrong.

I do appreciate your concerns, and asking the questions to get my "thinker" going...

Where's SETH....isn't he a "Nu-clear" Scientist?

(HaHa.... GeorgeWbush quote..)

Nahh, engineer in progress not scientist; Keep it straight ( ;


First off, I will give my general thoughts on the issue. As of I do not know for a FACT that adding Hydrogen Peroxide to my wine is safe.. I will not do it nor would I recommend it to anyone else. My gut instinct tells me it would not kill you, but I am still not a fan.

Something to consider, many chemical reactions do not need energy applied to them for them to go. Take Baking Soda and Vinegar, these guys will react on their own without the addition of energy (heat). This is known as an exothermic reaction. So the point of the story is that it could give off joules of energy instead of requiring energy for all we know.

Me, ( with my rather rusty and rudimentary chemistry skills) could not tell you off the top of my head just what exactly hydrogen peroxide would react with first in the wine. However, the fact that it gives off bubbles tells me that it is indeed reacting and it is causing some sort of chemical change to the wine. Most likely an oxidation reaction or binding with the SO2 in some way.

My thoughts, if you are using an oxidation reaction to remove so2, why don't you just put oxygen into it? O2 is 100% safe unless breathed in too high of concentrations or applied to a flame.

Has anyone ever put just a small "pinch" of "Arm&Hammer Baking Soda" into their Iced Tea?

It neutralizes some of the Tea's acids and actually makes it taste better. Not all Tea leaves, react the same way.... Lipton likes BakingSoda, but Luzianne doesn't need it.

I have also used it in different coffee blends.

I'm talking about this, because I have used BakingSoda to neutralize the corrosion on battery terminals, which is typically caused by Sulfuric Acid.

(Uh-Oh.... It just got a little more complex)

Please note that baking soda and Hydrogen Peroxide are rather different. Baking soda is a base while Hydrogen peroxide is an acid and oxidizer.

Anyways, that is my input on the issue. Chemistry is not exactly my field of expertise but I know a little bit about it.

 

[roger80465]

Ummm, won't hydrogen peroxide turn a red to a white? Just askin'.

 

[iVivid]

My thoughts, if you are using an oxidation reaction to remove so2, why don't you just put oxygen into it?

I thought that when you added Hydrogen Peroxide to water it converted to H2O and Oxygen? Isn't that how it works? We use it a lot over here for a variety of different things; it's a great thing to bath in as a pick-me-up too. We get the food grade one, not the one with yuk preservatives in it. When I purchased it, it was actually suggested to me that you could use it in wine making to sterilise and replace k-meta, but it was mean't to replace it, not use the two together. However, I couldn't ever find any dosages etc so for now I stick to what I know and I really don't believe I've had any issues with k-meta over the years.

Unfortunately, I've never done chemistry, had to learn some rudiments in a hurry when I started making wine, but I am very careful of things I don't know the reactions to; all I know is baking soda and vinegar are really good to clean your plug holes and septic tank safe

 

[jamesngalveston]

seth...i love you;....nicely said on the post;...

 

[jamesngalveston]

dang vivid...what the heck do you do.

 

[iVivid]

dang vivid...what the heck do you do.

You stick with what you know and make another wine

 

[seth8530]

I thought that when you added Hydrogen Peroxide to water it converted to H2O and Oxygen? Isn't that how it works? We use it a lot over here for a variety of different things; it's a great thing to bath in as a pick-me-up too. We get the food grade one, not the one with yuk preservatives in it. When I purchased it, it was actually suggested to me that you could use it in wine making to sterilise and replace k-meta, but it was mean't to replace it, not use the two together. However, I couldn't ever find any dosages etc so for now I stick to what I know and I really don't believe I've had any issues with k-meta over the years.

Unfortunately, I've never done chemistry, had to learn some rudiments in a hurry when I started making wine, but I am very careful of things I don't know the reactions to; all I know is baking soda and vinegar are really good to clean your plug holes and septic tank safe

Umm, not sure if hydrogen peroxide reacts with water, but I know that on its own it will break down into Water and Oxygen. I am not really trying to say Hydrogen Peroxide is inherently dangerous, I am just up for using it in ways that I do not understand.

seth...i love you;....nicely said on the post;...

Why thank you! I love you too!

 

[vernsgal]

Did someone summon me?! *poof*

LMAO thanks Seth!

 

[Stressbaby]

RMWO,

Where is this batch, I'm curious? The last update back on page five showed strangely the SG rising from 1.102 after you diluted with water up to 1.116.

I'm concerned about this batch to be honest. You increased the sugar by 50%; increased the lemon juice by 25%; the volume cut from 6g to 4.5g; and you heated it to 108F; you added k meta. I'm just a beginner but it seems like a pretty unfriendly environment for yeast.

I've only made one batch of DB but followed the recipe to the letter and it came out great. We call it the Hawaiian Punch Wine at our house. Not the wine for beef tenderloin dinner, but good. Maybe you can save it but you might consider cutting your losses and starting over, following the recipe by the letter. It's popular for a reason, and that is it works.

 

[jamesngalveston]

he removed the fruit, added more yeast, added warm water, and hydrogen peroxide.....
I do not think it is dragon blood any longer.

 

[Floandgary]

All of which takes us back about 50 or so posts.... KISS... Follow known recipes and proceedures (really quite simple) and your label won't have to bear a skull and X-bones!!! LOL

 

[RhynoMakingWineO]

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[RhynoMakingWineO]

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[RhynoMakingWineO]

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[RhynoMakingWineO]

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