RJ Spagnols Lots of questions/Help with first wine kit - RJS Premium Port

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matty

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First time winemaker and first time posting on the forum (although I've been reading it for a few months), sorry for the long post but I have a few questions I hope that they aren’t too inane or silly (being a newbie to wine making). Anyway I am in the process of making the RJS Premium Port Kit, I followed the directions to the letter and have now racked the wine and transferred it from the primary fermenter (after 10 days) to the secondary carboy.

During the first parts of the fermentation in the primary I pretty much understood what exactly was happening however after that I feel lost in terms of what is actually happening to the wine. I’ve read a few books, websites and watched videos which I believe has confused me even further. Now to my questions; after the first 10 days (Primary Fermentation) when I transferred the wine from the primary to the carboy; I assume this is considered the secondary fermentation period, however the instruction state to add the packets of sulfite and potassium sorbate, the F-pack, then to add the D1-Kieselsol and D2-Chitosan packets and finally degas. Wouldn’t the sulfite and potassium sorbate pretty much stop any additional fermentation performed by the yeast – if so is any fermentation actually going on (from my limited knowledge I wouldn’t think this wine would be the type of wine that would benefit from a malolactic fermentation)? What is “happening” to the wine between day 10 and day 42, is this essentially bulk aging here rather than secondary fermentation or is there indeed still some year fermentation activity within the wine?

Now since you all have much more experience what should the alcohol content and the SG of the finished Port wine (after the 42 days), and if I wanted to fortify the wine with Brandy (as typically done with Ports) when should I do this? If there is no fermentation going on in the “secondary” stage (after it goes into the carboy on day 10) should I have added it at the same time as the F-pack, or should I wait until after the 42 days? Do you have any idea how much brandy one should add or have any suggestions on types/brands that have worked well for you in your experience?

Finally, I have a 3L oak barrel that I would like to use to age some of the port (so as to keep the carboy filled to the top I plan to use marbles to displace the 3L I removed from the carboy into the oak barrel) – when is best to do this (and on a side note if I wanted to make another kit but add oak cubes or sticks when should I do this)? Can I or should I do it when I transfer from the primary to the secondary after day 10 and use the oak barrel as the secondary instead of using the carboy, or should I wait until after day 42? If aged in a barrel is there anything really preventing me or that might lead to poor results from aging and trying to make this into more of a tawny or even crusted or perhaps allowing it to become closer to a LBV port. Finally if I don’t filter the wine and allow a tiny bit of sediment to remain in each bottle is it possible to achieve an "unfiltered" or "bottle matured" type wine that can be improved by extra years in the bottle?

My apologies for the lengthy post and all these I’m sure silly questions, but your expert feedback, suggestions and answers to my questions are greatly appreciated. Glad to be part of this awesome forum now!
Matt
 
First and foremost, you do not want to add anything like metabisulfite, sorbate, etc. until after fermentation is complete. You can only tell that from your hydrometer (do not just by airlock activity alone) whether the S.G. has stopped dropping. Many people would call that time period after you transferred to a carboy as 'Secondary Fermentation' (though that name can always apply to other situations). What is your S.G. right now?
 
I see, perhaps I did mess up as I racked to secondary at 1.02 after 10 days as it had not changed for 2 days (but now I'm thinking it may have stalled out) and then followed the instructions . The instructions show (under racking to secondary fermenter) step 3 as "siphon into carboy" and step 4 as adding sulphite, step 5 as adding Potassium Sorbate and step 6 as adding finishing or sweetening pack.

Since I've already gone through all the steps including degassing and adding D1 and D2 is there any way to correct my step or perhaps restarting fermentation as the wine is very sweet, my latest sg show a whopping 1.30 after adding the foil sweetening/finishing blend (I've triple checked the reading, only thing I can think of is that the Fpack was REALLY SWEET plus my wine had not been fermented dry and/or somehow my SG reading in the primary of 1.02 was incorrect and was in fact higher than that - but those are all guesses, I really don't know what's up) I'm hoping there's a chance to somehow restart the fermentation but am skeptical since I already added the Sulphite and potassium sorbate - am i there pretty much stuck with what I have i.e. no way to salvage the port?
 
Hi matty,

Welcome to the forum.

I am afraid you have a real problem on your hands. The wine did not finish fermenting completely. The reason the SG is so high is the F pack, which contains a lot of sugar. The alcohol level is very low for a wine, let alone a port.

The sulfites you added stuns the yeast and weakens them for a short period of time. The sorbate renders the yeast incapable of multiplying.

What you should hope for is to be able to get fermentation going again. That will be very difficult, since you added the sulfites and the sorbate. What has to happen is you will need to build up a large colony of healthy yeast to put into your wine. Because of the presence of the sorbate, once you add the yeast to your wine, they likely won't multiply anymore, so what yeast you put into the wine will be all you will get; no multiplication. Until these yeast are added to your wine, they will need something to eat so they can multiply for a day and a half in an open-topped container (They need air to multiply).

You should purchase 3 or 4 packets of EC-1118 yeast, hydrate it in water to make a yeast starter by putting all the packets together in a cup of warm (100 to 104F) water (read more below). Once the yeast have been added to the warm water, let the solution's temperature slowly fall on its own down to room temperature.

Buy a can of frozen Welches Grape juice and mix it as though you are going to drink it; let it rise to room temperature. Once the yeast is hydrated and bubbling well, slowly add a table spoon at a time of the grape juice. Add another tablespoon about every 2 or three minutes for the first 15 minutes. After that, add 3 tablespoons of grape juice about every minute until the you have a container of a total of about 8 cups of solution. Next, let this solution bubble away at room temperature for about 2 more hours; then add another cup of grape juice (same temperature as solution!!!).

Every 8 hours, add another half cup of grape juice until the solution is about 36 hours old minimum.

I just realized you also added the clearing agents. Oh Boy, not good! I would go ahead and rack the wine off the sediment in the bottom. It is all dead and loaded with the clearing agent, so get rid of it.

Next, stir your wine to get some air stirred into it. This will help things get going again.

You will need to get the yeast solution acclimated to your highly sulfited, highly sorbated wine by adding your wine (same temperature) back to the solution a tablespoon at a time. Add a tablespoon about every 2 minutes for 20 minutes or so. Then add 3 tablespoons a minute for another 10 minutes.

If after an hour, the solution is still bubbling, it has acclimated to your wine. At that time, making sure the temperature of the solution and your wine are within a few degrees of each other, slowly pour the solution into your fermenter and gently stir it in.

If after 12 hours, your wine is again bubbling, you will be OK. If not, you will need to call the producer of your kit and tell them what has happened.

Just to let you know you might have less than a 50/50 chance it will ferment again. If it does, you will need to sweeten the port to your taste as the F pack is gone.

Good luck!
 
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Heres my $0.02. Stick a fork in it, its done. I don't think all the time, energy, and $$ will get you much if anything in return even, even if you were to get it going somehow which I seriously doubt. (the Sorbate and SO2 is gonna be hard/impossible to overcome)

Luckily, its a Port. Its going to be seriously back-sweetened anyway right so the only real issue is because it din't finish out to ~16% ABV like normal you will need more Brandy to fortify it to anywhere close to 19%. It still should be drinkable. You may have to settle for a lower ABV as if you add too much Brandy it will thin the body too much.

Chalk it all up to a learning experience and remember to use the hygrometer. Do not proceed to the next step until you reach the SG in the instructions. Being at 1.02 for two days it may just have needed to be warmed up a bit to get it going along with a gentle stir.
 
Matty:

I have not made this kit for several years, and the instructions don't seem to be on the RJS web-site. So you'll have to tell me what the instructions say.

You seem to say that the instructions recommend racking to carboy on day 10, and immediately stabilizing. Is that true? On other RJS kits, the date is Day 14. Do they specify a specific gravity target? Usually, the target is below 1.000, but may not be with a port.

Hopefully somebody who has made this kit will chime in.

Also the specific gravities in your 2nd post don't make sense. You racked at 1.02. Presumably you mean 1.020 (sg should be quoted with 3 decimal places). After adding the F-pack, the sg is 1.30. If you have a hydrometer that reads 1.300, please post a picture cause I don't believe you. Presumably you mean 1.030, which is quite possible after adding an F-pack to a 1.020 wine. Then you say "my SG reading in the primary of 1.02". Presumably this is the pre-racking reading.

Finally, what was the initial specific gravity (before or just after pitching the yeast)?

Steve
 
If your SG is currently at 1.030.. You might yet have a chance.. 1.030 is not completely unheard for a port final gravity.... What was your initial gravity? You might have enough alcohol in their already so that the fortification process wont thin out the wine too much.
 
I've got an RJS Toasted Caramel Port in primary right now. The weird thing about the instructions is that there is no racking into a carboy for secondary fermentation for a few more days. Basically all of the fermentation is spent in the primary ferm bucket. Then instructions say at Day 10-14 the SG should be below 1.000 for the port. From there it has you do the first racking and immediately go into stabilizing (sulphite and sorbate), degassing and clearing (kieselsol and chitosan).

All other wines I've made (WE and even other RJS reds) have a racking at around 1.020 for secondary, then once dry (< 1.000), rack again to stabilize and clear. Any reason the RJS Port kit keeps it on lees?

Also, I have a couple of oak spirals. Any suggestions when I should drop one in and for how long?

Thanks
 
I've got an RJS Toasted Caramel Port in primary right now. The weird thing about the instructions is that there is no racking into a carboy for secondary fermentation for a few more days. Basically all of the fermentation is spent in the primary ferm bucket. Then instructions say at Day 10-14 the SG should be below 1.000 for the port. From there it has you do the first racking and immediately go into stabilizing (sulphite and sorbate), degassing and clearing (kieselsol and chitosan).

All other wines I've made (WE and even other RJS reds) have a racking at around 1.020 for secondary, then once dry (< 1.000), rack again to stabilize and clear. Any reason the RJS Port kit keeps it on lees?

Also, I have a couple of oak spirals. Any suggestions when I should drop one in and for how long?

Thanks
The 14-day primary has been the standard for RJS brands that do not usually include grape packs since about 2006. I think that this is to simplify the process for their customers.

Steve
 
The 14-day primary has been the standard for RJS brands that do not usually include grape packs since about 2006. I think that this is to simplify the process for their customers.

Steve

Thanks for the quick reply Steve. So that explains it. The other RJS kits I've used have had grape packs.

I guess I'm just used to racking once below 1.020 which is where I would normally oak it. So shall I wait until it ferments dry, then when doing the first rack per the instructions, add my oak spiral? If so, how long should I leave the oak in as I've only used cubes and dust in the past?
 

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