WineXpert Wine secondary problem

[BruceA]

Hi, just racked my wine into a carboy for secondary fermentation. Added the oak chips per instructions but have a bit of a problem. I was careful when I racked to stop with the liquid level approximately 3 inches from the top of my carboy but the problem I’m having is gas (co2) is pushing some of the oak chips up and clogging the spout and causing an overflow??.. hate the thought of draining some of the wine out?? Appreciate any help

 

[winemaker81]

What is your SG? That gives us an idea of how much fermentation you have left to go.

When you put fermenting wine into a carboy, 3" of space is no where enough. What do you have for small bottles? Drain wine into 1.5 l or 750 ml wine bottles, half filling them. If the wine is actively fermenting, you can wrap the top with plastic wrap, so CO2 can get out while nothing gets in. This is not for long term, just until fermentation completes.

Note -- there is only one fermentation, whether it completes in the primary fermenter, or if it starts in a primary and finishes in a secondary. We see supposedly authoritative sources referring to the completion of fermentation in a carboy as "secondary".

Also note that post-fermentation, the wine may outgas violently for weeks. It's entirely possible the fermentation is complete, and it's outgassing.

Yet another note on oak -- Regardless of the SG at the first racking/pressing, let the wine rest for a week or two so that the gross lees (fruit solids) settles out. At that time rack off the sediment, and then add oak adjuncts.

 

[BruceA]

What is your SG? That gives us an idea of how much fermentation you have left to go.

When you put fermenting wine into a carboy, 3" of space is no where enough. What do you have for small bottles? Drain wine into 1.5 l or 750 ml wine bottles, half filling them. If the wine is actively fermenting, you can wrap the top with plastic wrap, so CO2 can get out while nothing gets in. This is not for long term, just until fermentation completes.

Note -- there is only one fermentation, whether it completes in the primary fermenter, or if it starts in a primary and finishes in a secondary. We see supposedly authoritative sources referring to the completion of fermentation in a carboy as "secondary".

Also note that post-fermentation, the wine may outgas violently for weeks. It's entirely possible the fermentation is complete, and it's outgassing.

Yet another note on oak -- Regardless of the SG at the first racking/pressing, let the wine rest for a week or two so that the gross lees (fruit solids) settles out. At that time rack off the sediment, and then add oak adjuncts.

The sg initially was right on 1.100,when I racked it to secondary fermentation it was 1.00. Tells me fermentation is going really well

 

[winemaker81]

At this point it probably mostly outgassing ... which doesn't change your situation. Transfer some of the wine into another container and give it a week or two, then rack off the sediment.

 

[Brant]

The sg initially was right on 1.100,when I racked it to secondary fermentation it was 1.00. Tells me fermentation is going really well

What container were you using for primary fermentation? Does it have a lid that seals or was it just open top? Also, how much time was it between when you first started seeing fermentation to when you racked to secondary? A few days? A week?

Normally if fermentation is going strong, there is no need to move the wine- regardless of container. Once fermentation has slowed down you can rack to a ssecondary container (like a big mouth bubbler, or carboy with sufficient head space). Or if your primary container has a lid that seals and has an airlock hole, you can shut it and put in an airlock.

Note that as long as you see bubbling through an airlock, the wine is off gassing and creating a layer of CO2 that will protect it. Even if you have a lid on that blocks air from coming in but allows the CO2 out, it will likely be good enough for the first 7 to 10 days in primary.

Many people on this forum use 8 gallon buckets with lids that have gaskets for primary. It makes the process easier as you can leave the wine in the bucket until fermentation has completed.

Bryan's advice for waiting to add oak is spot on. You'll learn that winemaking is a patient process. Finishing oak can be added at any point after fermentation but most people tend to wait until they have racked off the gross less and the wine is ready to age in a carboy for a few months to a year. Many people will rack their wines a few times during the aging process to help remove sediment as it falls. The longer the wine sits, typically the more sediment will naturally fall out of suspension. Fining agents (K&C) will also help drop sediment.

My personal process is primary for 2 weeks minimum (in a sealed bucket under airlock), transfer to carboy (removes gross lees), leave it for 1 to 2 months before racking to new carboy. After that, the wine will spend around 6 to 12 months in that carboy. The only thing I do is add kmeta at each racking and on a 3 month schedule. I let nature do the fining and skip the K&C. I use a vacuum pump for transfers and I filter the wine at bottling. The vacuum pump also helps remove C02. Oak can be added at any point along the way.

Edit... I'm making some assumptions in my mind. I assumed you're making wine from a kit. If this is not the case, some of what I'm suggesting may not be the best advice for you. Good luck!

 

[BruceA]

What container were you using for primary fermentation? Does it have a lid that seals or was it just open top? Also, how much time was it between when you first started seeing fermentation to when you racked to secondary? A few days? A week?

Normally if fermentation is going strong, there is no need to move the wine- regardless of container. Once fermentation has slowed down you can rack to a ssecondary container (like a big mouth bubbler, or carboy with sufficient head space). Or if your primary container has a lid that seals and has an airlock hole, you can shut it and put in an airlock.

Note that as long as you see bubbling through an airlock, the wine is off gassing and creating a layer of CO2 that will protect it. Even if you have a lid on that blocks air from coming in but allows the CO2 out, it will likely be good enough for the first 7 to 10 days in primary.

Many people on this forum use 8 gallon buckets with lids that have gaskets for primary. It makes the process easier as you can leave the wine in the bucket until fermentation has completed.

Bryan's advice for waiting to add oak is spot on. You'll learn that winemaking is a patient process. Finishing oak can be added at any point after fermentation but most people tend to wait until they have racked off the gross less and the wine is ready to age in a carboy for a few months to a year. Many people will rack their wines a few times during the aging process to help remove sediment as it falls. The longer the wine sits, typically the more sediment will naturally fall out of suspension. Fining agents (K&C) will also help drop sediment.

My personal process is primary for 2 weeks minimum (in a sealed bucket under airlock), transfer to carboy (removes gross lees), leave it for 1 to 2 months before racking to new carboy. After that, the wine will spend around 6 to 12 months in that carboy. The only thing I do is add kmeta at each racking and on a 3 month schedule. I let nature do the fining and skip the K&C. I use a vacuum pump for transfers and I filter the wine at bottling. The vacuum pump also helps remove C02. Oak can be added at any point along the way.

Edit... I'm making some assumptions in my mind. I assumed you're making wine from a kit. If this is not the case, some of what I'm suggesting may not be the best advice for you. Good luck!

Yea my SG starting out was 1.100, did use a white tub with a lid and an airlock for my primary. After 5 days my SG was down to 1.000 and the instructions said at this point add oak chips and rack to a carboy which I did, but seeing so much CO2 coming out makes me wish I had waited a few more days?? Things has slowed so I think I’m ok

 

[Brant]

Sounds like the oak chips are fermentation oak (sacrificial) and not finishing oak. Two different things. What brand kit is this?

Typically, most people add sacrificial oak in the primary. If your primary has a good seal, you can leave it sit in that container until fermentation is 99% complete. This is what I do because I don't like racking any more than in necessary and I dont have another large container for "secondary". Fermentation is one step for me and this simplifies the process. The main reason for racking one more time before bulk aging is to pull off any inital sediment that drops out in the first 4 to 6 weeks. After that, it's smooth (patient) sailing until bottling time.

Fyi, you will find that each kit manufacturer might have minor differences in their wine making steps- not necessarily right or wrong. And every wine maker might do things a little different. In my experience so far, subtle differences in processes usual amount to subtle changes at best.

 

[BruceA]

Sounds like the oak chips are fermentation oak (sacrificial) and not finishing oak. Two different things. What brand kit is this?

Typically, most people add sacrificial oak in the primary. If your primary has a good seal, you can leave it sit in that container until fermentation is 99% complete. This is what I do because I don't like racking any more than in necessary and I dont have another large container for "secondary". Fermentation is one step for me and this simplifies the process. The main reason for racking one more time before bulk aging is to pull off any inital sediment that drops out in the first 4 to 6 weeks. After that, it's smooth (patient) sailing until bottling time.

Fyi, you will find that each kit manufacturer might have minor differences in their wine making steps- not necessarily right or wrong. And every wine maker might do things a little different. In my experience so far, subtle differences in processes usual amount to subtle changes at best.

Really appreciate your help, the kit I’m using is Sommelier Select Cabernet Sauvignon I paid got via Amazon for around $200. This is the 4th time I’ve made wine and am very satisfied with the previous batches.

 

[Brant]

Really appreciate your help, the kit I’m using is Sommelier Select Cabernet Sauvignon I paid got via Amazon for around $200. This is the 4th time I’ve made wine and am very satisfied with the previous batches.

I just read through those kit instructions. If I was making that kit. I'd combine the steps of primary and secondary and just do 1 fermentation. Oak would be added in the very beginning. I'd only rack to a carboy once there was clear signs that fermentation was complete (or very slow) and not sooner than 14 days (unless circumstances beyond your control dicate sooner).

I'd also add a medium toast finishing oak during aging via cubes, staves or other. I'd skip sorbate (unless backsweetening) and k&c and age for a minimum of 6 to 9 months. I'd only add k&c if I wasn't filtering and nature didn't do the fining for me over the aging timeframe.