Too much potassium sorbate?

[Cooper's Must]

Ughh. I took some bad advice on potassium sorbate additions to my white wine. I added 2-3 times what was needed. I now have tartrate crystals in my chardonnay. That is a first for me. But I'm more concerned with flavor implications and whether there is an unhealthy amount of potassium sorbate in my wine now. Can anyone weigh in?

 

[ibglowin]

Sorbate does not cause tartrate crystal formation. Tartrate crystals or "wine diamonds" are a natural formation over time and they are a precipitate of tartaric acid dropping out of solution. Taratric acid is the most predominant naturally occurring acid in both red and white wines.

 

[djrockinsteve]

Too much sorbate will give your wine an off taste.

Do not fret. Do some more wine and blend it with the over sorbated wine. Do another Chardonnay and maybe a Chenin Blanc and blend them. Just bulk age your wine for now. Blend later and bottle.

Just don't add anymore sorbate. Typical amount is 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

 

[grapeman]

Most sorbate is added at the 1/2 tsp per gallon rate as stated which correlates to 1 tablespoon per 6 gallon carboy.

 

[Turock]

Sorbate is never added to wine until secondary fermentation is complete---meaning the wine is aged and clarified. Sorbate should not be used until bottling, and only if you're going to sweeten.

 

[robie]

As was pointed out, the crystals in the wine is another matter besides the sorbate.

Sorbate gives wine a bubblegum-type flavor. If you don't taste bubblegum, your wine will be OK as is. However, some people can taste sorbate better than others, so think about this if you decide to give any of this wine away without first blending it to reduce the sorbate. You may think it is OK, others may not.

 

[MugMaker]

Is there any easy way to test if one added Sorbate? Like if you forget to make a note in your log book.
I mean before it is ruined - since I dont want to add too much ... I know you can test the SO2 (Sulphite).

Is K (Potassium) better than Na (Sodium) - Sorbate?

Magnus

 

[cpfan]

Is K (Potassium) better than Na (Sodium) - Sorbate?

I've never seen or heard mention of Na-Sorbate. And I ran a store for 6 years.

Perhaps you are mixing it up with K-meta and Na-meta.

Steve

 

[MugMaker]

I'm sure Is there any easy way to test if one added Sorbate?

 

[mmadmikes1]

I am one of the people who can taste sorbate so I never add it. Unless you are backsweetin there is zero need. I blame the kit companies for the over use of sorbate.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

I think he is referring to sodium metabisulphite vs potassium metabisulphite?

http://distillery-yeast.com/data-sheets/sodium-metabisulphite/

sorbate is a different thing

 

[MugMaker]

I was serrious - Im aware about the sulphite thing, as I wrote - I know you can test for SO2

... though I still wonder if one can test for Sorbate or do you just taste if you added it?

Magnus

 

[mmadmikes1]

I can taste sorbate, it is kind of a bubble gum taste. I do not know of a simple , get it at brew store test for sorbate

 

[ibglowin]

You can easily test for the presence of Potassium Sorbate in a wine but not the concentration.

A UV Spectrometer can be used to to quantify the amount of Potassium Sorbate in liquids but not too many people have them lying around the house.

 

[Flem]

I'll bet Dan does! LOL

 

[Susan]

Too much sorbate will give your wine an off taste.

Do not fret. Do some more wine and blend it with the over sorbated wine. Do another Chardonnay and maybe a Chenin Blanc and blend them. Just bulk age your wine for now. Blend later and bottle.

Just don't add anymore sorbate. Typical amount is 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

I haven't been able to get the bitter taste caused from to much potassium sorbate out of mine. I even made another batch and added lots of sugar. Now I have two batches to dump. SMH

 

[Rice_Guy]

Howdy Susan and welcome to Wine Making Talk. How long have you made wine? What kind do you like? Where are you located, ,, wine country?

I haven't been able to get the bitter taste caused from to much potassium sorbate out of mine. I even made another batch and added lots of sugar. Now I have two batches to dump. SMH

Sorbate reacts with ethyl alcohol making ethyl sorbate. Ethyl sorbate is a FDA approved flavor for some candy and medicines. Its flavor is described as bubble gum, not as bitter.
A guess if I had bitter notes on a white wine is that I had low yeast nutrition which stressed the yeast >> stress caused hydrogen sulfide to be released when yeast recycle dead yeast (at this stage you can get it out) >>> the hydrogen sulphide reacted with organics to make mercaptans which are quite stable/ have a bitter flavor/ are detectable at low levels as 1ppt/ can mask fruity aromatics.
The AWRI has some web content about “stinky sulfur” and another source for background is Virginia Tech with content on “sulfur like odor” / SLO.

The vinters club is suggesting two stage feeding yeast 1) Fermaid O >> 2) at 1.055 ie 1/3 sugar feed with Fermaid K. Another approach is no H2S yeast made by Renaissance.

 

[winemaker81]

@Susan, welcome to WMT!

Don't be too quick to dump a batch. You can always dump it later, and a lot of problems are at least partially fixable.