Sanitizing solution confusion

[arcticsid]

I don't understand the weights/ or ppm measures. But 1/4 tsp is ehnough for 6 gallons of wine in the primary. For sanitizing I use 3 TBLS per gallon of water.

Can't comment on any of the other products out there, I have only used K meta.

 

[Old Philosopher]

H2o2

Has hydrogen peroxide (food grade) ever been used as a sanitizer? If not, why not? It's used extensively in hospitals to sanitize surfaces and equipment.

 

[St Allie]

Well you can use bleach as well.. thing is... it needs to be really well rinsed off with boiled/boiling water, or it'll taint your wine.

( be careful to warm glass carboys well, before using boiling water, or it may crack the glass)

Allie

 

[Old Philosopher]

Well you can use bleach as well.. thing is... it needs to be really well rinsed off with boiled/boiling water, or it'll taint your wine.

( be careful to warm glass carboys well, before using boiling water, or it may crack the glass)

Allie

Is that anything like pouring hot grease down the toilet? :<

 

[arcticsid]

Oh...O.P., just when I was begining to think you might be one of the brilliant ones amongst us!!!!!LOL

Troy

 

[Old Philosopher]

Oh...O.P., just when I was begining to think you might be one of the brilliant ones amongst us!!!!!LOL

Troy

I was the brilliant one who got to replace the toilet after my wife pulled that stunt!

 

[bob1]

Peroxzide is used for a case of over doseing your wine with sulphate. It is used to get SO2 levels down if you over do it or have an accident and drop to much in.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Peroxzide is used for a case of over doseing your wine with sulphate. It is used to get SO2 levels down if you over do it or have an accident and drop to much in.

Yeah, it's an oxidizer, and works on some microbes by over dosing them. It's not a disinfectant, per se.

 

[cpfan]

Has hydrogen peroxide (food grade) ever been used as a sanitizer? If not, why not? It's used extensively in hospitals to sanitize surfaces and equipment.

Yes. and it's even used by beer folks since the residue is said to be fermentable (I think I got that right).

When I ran an FoP and didn't want to use K-meta as a sanitizer, and a couple of customers were concerned about iodine, I used hydrogen peroxide.

Steve

 

[Wade E]

Ive heard of this but dont know enough about this to try or recommend anyone doing so. I tried looking it up but found no links t a good understanding of it. Do you know of a good link to this info. There also has to be a con to this as peroxide is also a poison!

 

[Old Philosopher]

Ive heard of this but dont know enough about this to try or recommend anyone doing so. I tried looking it up but found no links t a good understanding of it. Do you know of a good link to this info. There also has to be a con to this as peroxide is also a poison!

When I was looking for non-toxic, non-chemical treatments for our hot tub, we chose H2O2. Even at that time, the spa companies were saying it was not a sanitizer. We added a mechanical sanitizer, but that's another story.

Apparently, the spa guys were ignorant, or just wanted to sell another product, because H2O2 is a very effective sanitizer, by means of its oxidation properties.
Here's one quick link:
http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/64/1/Hydrogen-peroxide-tips.html

And a quote from that site:

Most of the debate about chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) stems from its ability to form more toxic byproducts such as dioxin, furans and other organochlorines when reacting with other elements.

Hydrogen Peroxide on the other hand, is simply water with an extra oxygen molecule (H2O2) and breaks down into oxygen and water. It's certainly kinder on the environment. H2O2 is produced by both animal and plant cells and is formed naturally in the environment by sunlight acting on water.

Do be careful when purchasing and handling this substance as some commercially available "food grade" hydrogen peroxide is 35% pure, highly corrosive and can be toxic or fatal if ingested at that strength.

Hydrogen peroxide should be diluted down to 3% as a base for most applications. It's also readily available in 3% solution from your local pharmacy or drugstore; which is probably the preferable and safer way to buy it, especially if you can take your empty bottles back for exchange/refilling - that can help cut down the cost.

Hydrogen Peroxide tips and uses

- Hydrogen peroxide in a 3% solution applied to a rag can be used to clean benchtops and cutting boards to help kill salmonella and other bacteria

- Half fill a spray bottle with a 3% solution and then top it up with water for use as a bathroom and toilet disinfectant and cleaner. This is especially useful if you have a septic, greywater or blackwater treatment system as it won't harm the bacteria in the treatment areas - the hydrogen peroxide would have diluted to a point that renders it harmless by that stage through the interaction with flush water.

- Mix a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution with two parts water in a spray bottle and use on areas affected by mold. You can try a neat 3% solution for areas like bathroom tiling, but be careful on the strength in relation to painted items as it may bleach them.

- To help kill bacteria such as E. Coli on fruits and vegetables, add a quarter cup of 3% hydrogen peroxide to a sink full of cold water. immerse, rinse with cold water and drain. By killing bacteria this will also help keep fruit and vegetables fresher for longer. You can also use a spray bottle containing a 50/50 mix of 3% hydrogen peroxide and water - just spray and rinse.

Here's another link:
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4606163_hydrogen-peroxide-kill-bacteria.html

In part....

How Hydrogen Peroxide Kills Bacteria
Hydrogen peroxide is always in a dark-brown bottle as light decreases its potency. Hydrogen peroxide is created from oxygen and hydrogen molecules. It is the oxygen responsible for the killing of germs. When hydrogen peroxide is applied to a surface, it reacts quickly and then breaks down into water hydrogen. At the same time, free oxygen radicals are released; these create oxidation, a chemical process in which oxygen combines with another substance to break down or change the function of the molecules. Through oxidation, the bacteria decomposes, rendering it harmless

Since it neutralizes sulfites, it's probably not something to add to a must, as it will also add oxygen. But for equipment sanitizing, it sounds perfectly effective, and the only bi-products are hydrogen and water.

 

[arcticsid]

O.P. how much wine were planning on making in that hot tub?
LOL

 

[Old Philosopher]

O.P. how much wine were planning on making in that hot tub?
LOL

Whassa matter? You never heard of a REAL Roman bath?

Sounded like I was off-track, but my point was that 1/2 cup of H2O2 per week, replaced $30 worth of "recommended" chemicals.

 

[Wade E]

Ok but Ive heard of it being used as you said to reduce the S02 levels in wine, everything Ive read says not to swallow so is there a way to precipitate it out or something. What rate would it be used at to do so?

 

[Old Philosopher]

Ok but Ive heard of it being used as you said to reduce the S02 levels in wine, everything Ive read says not to swallow so is there a way to precipitate it out or something. What rate would it be used at to do so?

I'll try to find something more specific on toxicity, but H2O2 is naturally produced by the body to begin with.
The thing is, H2O2 breaks down rapidly into H and O. Once it has oxidized, there are no residual compounds left to "poison" you. Food Grade H2O2 is usually sold in 30% or 35% solutions. There are ample warnings not to use it full strength. When diluted, there is little risk. Many people who swear by drinking it as an oxidant, are still alive. The AMA has said there is no clinical proof that it does any good, or bad, and the FDA (insert your own opinion here) has warned it might cause stomach problems. Some of this information is in the links I provided.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Maybe this will shed more light on it:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/Mhmi/mmg174.html

Ingestion
If ingested, solutions of hydrogen peroxide up to concentrations of 9% are generally nontoxic; however, even a 3% solution is mildly irritating to mucosal tissue and may cause vomiting and diarrhea. Ingestion of industrial-strength solutions (=10%) causes systemic toxicity and has been associated with fatalities

http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-hydrogen-peroxide.htm

Is hydrogen peroxide used for drinking water disinfection?

In the 1950's, hydrogen peroxide was first used for drinking water disinfection in Eastern Europe. It is known for its high oxidative and biocidal efficiency. Hydrogen peroxide has not been used often for drinking water disinfection, but it's popularity seems to increase. It is often used combined with ozone, silver or UV.

A disinfectant solution of H2O2 is a 50/50 dilution of 3% H2O2 in water. That's about a 1.5% solution. I still can't find anything on the dilution for reducing SO2.

 

[Wade E]

Okay I pulled this up and still would stay away.
"Adding Hydrogen Peroxide will oxidise sulfites in wine. So theoretically if you are allergic to sulfites then yes it would work. However, I would be very careful with this because the reaction is H2O2 + SO2 which forms H2SO4 (AKA Sulfuric Acid). About 1ml in a 750ml bottle should be sufficient... but I don't recommend you do it without knowing how. Maybe just look for a low sulfite wine

p.s. when i say 1ml i mean 1ml of 3% peroxide okay"
I also pulled this up which contradicts wht the other guy said!

"
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Wine - cabernet
Expert: Tim - 11/16/2005

Question
I made a batch of cab. in nov 2004 from juice i bought. It was a kit that makes 6 gallons . I may have used a little to much sodium medabisulfite in the sterilising process of the equiptment. The wine has the same smell. It tases good but the bouquet has that sodium smell. can i add something to get fid of this?

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Answer
Anthony,

Try a little Hydrogen Peroxide. Set up a benchtop trial; 1 ml peroxide into 100 mls wine, then 2 mls into 100 mls wine,...and so on) the peroxide binds free SO2, and breaks down into CO2 and H2O. This is not legal commercially, but works for home wine, and it is harmless. Measure carefully though, too much peroxide, and you will end up with too much acetaldehyde, which will spoil the wine"

 

[Old Philosopher]

Ok but Ive heard of it being used as you said to reduce the S02 levels in wine, everything Ive read says not to swallow so is there a way to precipitate it out or something. What rate would it be used at to do so?

This is an e-book, so I couldn't cut and paste:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Zf...resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Modern winemaking By Philip Jackisch

He says, ".7ml H2O2 (3%) per gallon" if your wine is at 10 ppm SO2.


This is a Power Point Presentation about SO2.
The H2O2 reference is on page 39, starts on page 38.

http://www.makewine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/feb-2007-presentation.ppt

I don't know...all this is way beyond where I am with wine making. I was just trying to find out if it would work for equipment.

 

[Wade E]

Thats more like what I was looking for. Ive heard of it a few times and have never needed it this info cause Im very careful in all my additions but its always good to know.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Storing/using k-meta

WELCOME !

Potassium Metabisulfite is the most common. Use 3 tablespoons for 1 gallon.
After using, store it in a small carboy, bucket or gallon jug. I will last for months.
Use and return it back. Suggestion is to add some to a spray bottle and then you can spray what you want sanitized. Simple and handy way.
Hope this helps....

I finally found where I'd read this before. With a solution stored in a 1 gallon jug, used and returned to the jug, how often is too often? In other words, how often would you want to make up a new "stock" solution, if you were re-introducing "used" sanitizer back into the jug?