Unusual

[TheLastDervish]

Hello everyone!

I am from Pakistan and as you all know we're a country where alcohol is banned but limitations give way to innovations, don't they? Anyway I happen to have a grapevine at my house which produces red grapes with a bunch of seeds, which makes them less desirable to eat but perfect for wine (so I hope) before I begin, i would like to inform you all that alcohol does get sold here but in black, which results in extortionately mad prices. So i have decided to make some wine and found this forum to be very interactive and would love to get your input as i begin my journey to making wine in a country where it's almost impossible to get the right equipment let alone the wine itself.

I have, however, managed to score some wine yeast - imported from the US. I have a gallon (40 - 50 Litre) usually used to store water with a tight lid (good to go i guess) I can also arrange Potassium Metabisulfite and a pH testing strip case. I have a few questions and i would be delighted to get some expert opinion so that i get to surprise my friends with a decent wine.

Question # 01: How much water to i add to say 20 KG grapes (pressed pulp & juice) also how much sugar per litre of water?

Question # 02: What's the best possible time to introduce Yeast into the musk? After i have put sugary water or before?

Question # 03 and perhaps the most important one: When do i introduce Potassium Metabisulfite?

Please note that I am planning to let it sit for 21 days and then siphon into 16 litre carboys (well not carboys exactly but somewhat similar) with lids a little loose to let the CO2 pass out. Would let it sit for at least a week in my fridge and then I would siphon into bottles (will try to get my hands on some glass bottles with tight lids)

What am i thinking wrong here and how can i get a decent wine with limited resources. Please enlighten me oh wise wine makers.

P.S. I will be posting regular updates.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

One does not ordinarily add ANY water to grapes when making wine.

Here are some good (and free!) step-by-step guides to making wine: MoreManuals! Winemaking Guides | MoreWine

A lot will depend on what kind of grapes you are using. If they are grapes usually used for just eating (i.e., "table grapes"), the wine will probably be a bit thin. You will probably have to add sugar (as you mentioned) to get enough alcohol.

You will really need a way to measure the sugar in the grapes. You can use a refractometer or a hydrometer. A refractometer can measure the sugar content from just a drop or two of juice: https://www.amazon.com/Brix-Refractometer-ATC-Dual-Scale/dp/B01LW2ZU6R/ However, this device cannot easily be used to monitor the progress of your fermentation.
A hydrometer requires a larger sample of liquid, but can be used to monitor the fermentation: https://www.amazon.com/FastRack-Triple-Scale-Hydrometer-Specific-accurately/dp/B00GGJ4X9S/

 

[TheLastDervish]

Thank you so much for the valuable input, appreciate!

 

[ibglowin]

Welcome! I would grab a copy of the free MoreWine guide to red winemaking and their checklist to red winemaking. These are excellent primers on how to make quality wine with today's technics and tools. You may not be able to source everything but at least you will better understand the winemaking process after reading them. Just having wine yeast is an excellent start. Grapes really almost want to become wine all on their own. We just help them a bit and try to not get in the way of the natural process really.

https://morewinemaking.com/content/winemanuals

Good luck!

 

[TheLastDervish]

Welcome! I would grab a copy of the free MoreWine guide to red winemaking and their checklist to red winemaking. These are excellent primers on how to make quality wine with today's technics and tools. You may not be able to source everything but at least you will better understand the winemaking process after reading them. Just having wine yeast is an excellent start. Grapes really almost want to become wine all on their own. We just help them a bit and try to not get in the way of the natural process really.

https://morewinemaking.com/content/winemanuals

Good luck!

Hello and thank you! Yes i did read the manuals and they were of great help, thank you again!

 

[Jovimaple]

Welcome to WMT and good luck!

Many of us ferment other fruits besides grapes. So if you enjoy the process, you may find other things to use to make wine while you are waiting for the next crop of grapes!

 

[TheLastDervish]

Welcome to WMT and good luck!

Many of us ferment other fruits besides grapes. So if you enjoy the process, you may find other things to use to make wine while you are waiting for the next crop of grapes!

Hello and thank you! Yes we have abundant fruits here and i am already contemplating on making small batches of sugarcane, plum and lychee wines. However, my vineyard will easily give me a 50+ kg produce so this one's going to be huge and i am so looking forward to it. Thank you again

 

[BernardSmith]

Welcome, TheLastDervish. The thing about grapes is that most grapes (certainly in the US) are for eating and their sugar content and their flavor does not make those grapes so wonderful for wine. Wine grapes have about twice the amount of sugar and their flavors are far more complex and delightful for wine. What you may want to do is make what we call "country wines" - that is to say, wines made from fruit other than grapes. Local fruits will make delicious wines but you will need to add about 2 kg of sugar for every 4-5 liters of juice. Most fruit does not contain enough sugar to make a wine which is typically about 12% alcohol by volume. If you pressed the fruit and juiced it you might get enough fermentable sugars from the fruit to make a wine at about 5-6% alcohol by volume (ABV), BUT to get that amount of juice (juice and no water) you might need about 7 kg of the fruit for every 4 liters. What we generally do is take about 2-3 kg of fruit for every 4 liters, crush the fruit to allow the yeast access to the insides (where the sugars are) and add 4 liters of quality water. (grape wines are made from wine grapes but no water or sugar is typically added and there is enough juice and enough sugar to make wines at about 12-13% ABV.

 

[TheLastDervish]

Welcome, TheLastDervish. The thing about grapes is that most grapes (certainly in the US) are for eating and their sugar content and their flavor does not make those grapes so wonderful for wine. Wine grapes have about twice the amount of sugar and their flavors are far more complex and delightful for wine. What you may want to do is make what we call "country wines" - that is to say, wines made from fruit other than grapes. Local fruits will make delicious wines but you will need to add about 2 kg of sugar for every 4-5 liters of juice. Most fruit does not contain enough sugar to make a wine which is typically about 12% alcohol by volume. If you pressed the fruit and juiced it you might get enough fermentable sugars from the fruit to make a wine at about 5-6% alcohol by volume (ABV), BUT to get that amount of juice (juice and no water) you might need about 7 kg of the fruit for every 4 liters. What we generally do is take about 2-3 kg of fruit for every 4 liters, crush the fruit to allow the yeast access to the insides (where the sugars are) and add 4 liters of quality water. (grape wines are made from wine grapes but no water or sugar is typically added and there is enough juice and enough sugar to make wines at about 12-13% ABV.

Hello Bernard! That's an interesting take and i am already thinking to make wine with different fruits, for now i will give these grapes a shot, i will soon have a refractometer so i won't have any problem finding out the sugar levels. Thank you for your thought provoking comment.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Welcome to Wine Making Talk
You are talking about making traditional/ low technology wine.
* an old fashioned way to measure/ potential alcohol/ sugar/ density of a liquid was to float an egg in the solution. The depth that the egg floats at reflects the concentration. For starting apple usually has a specific gravity of 1.050 (egg should sink), grape juice is about 1.090 (about 1cm is above the liquid), and egg is about 1.100. Why care? ,, alcoholic solutions above 5% are fairly resistant to microbial spoilage.
* alcohol combines with oxygen. Why care? ,,, lots of aerobic organisms can survive and they change the fruity flavor to bad or maybe vinegar ,,, oxidation of alcohol produces acetaldehyde which tastes bad. Once you have alcohol in your wine it is important to limit oxygen exposure. Traditional wine would be in a clay crock with a wood cover and olive oil to exclude oxygen. Modern we have oxygen barrier plastics like PET, metalized wine pouches and even glass bottles. Air limits shelf life, pay attention to head space.
* metabisulphite, first and foremost this is an antioxidant which lets us make fruit/ white grape wines.
Traditional good wine &apple cider had tannins which are anti-oxidants. Tannin is fairly common as from red grape skins, sumacs bark, oak barrels, bitter/ astringent apples. Most foods/ breads eliminate tannin because the bitter or astringent flavor ,,, but for wine this gives shelf life. Apples classify tannins as hard tannin (bitter/ undesirable) and soft tannin (astringent/ OK at low level)
I like plastics and encourage you to look for balloons to stretch over the bottle when out gassing. There are some 120mm silicone that I stretch over wide mouth containers. A traditional air lock was a cork with hose that ended/ bubbled into a bowl of water. ,,, However eventually you need a good oxygen barrier for a cap.
* yeast, most ambient yeast will tolerate 8% alcohol which is good enough for jailhouse hooch. But the flavors aren’t good enough for commercial wines. You can recycle the yeast off the bottom of a fermenter. I would freeze it and expect 50% kill or just start the next batch like beer manufacturers do.
* wine is a balance of flavors. Alcohol and sugar are sweet. Acid and tannin produce sour flavor. Traditional wine with grape balances acid and sweet. Wines made with sugar and water need acid added to balance the flavor. (I like the acids in soda since food grade are easy to get/ phosphoric and citric). Lastly a pH below 4.0 prevents most food poisoning organisms. pH below 2.8 prevents yeast so you want to stay above 2.8.

Wine can be made without modern tools. To do it well you need to be a good taster. ,,, Good at identifying chemicals/ ingredients by taste.

 

[TheLastDervish]

WOW! Thank you so much for sharing this knowledge sir. Appreciate a lot!!

 

[Handy]

You would not ordinarily add water or sugar to grapes when making wine. You can however make a lower grade wine from the Pomace (crushed skins) called Piquette. I am told it can be a refreshing lower alcohol slightly fizzy drink.