RJ Spagnols Question on clearing and fining

[Ricky]

Hello, i`m about to go into secondary ferm on my fourth kit tomorrow,all but one has been RJ Spagnols winery or en primeur kits, there instructions are very similar, sulfite,sorbate,degas, clear and fine.....i was under the impression that all this happens all in the same "sitting",i was looking at a thread today and shawn said he bulk aged his kit for 17 MONTHS.....before clearing and fining.... i`m i missing somethimg or doing something wrong?....if so what`s the benefit of waiting?..2 of my next 3 kits are going to be whites ....i hear there tempermental....lol

i`d like to take a second to thank everyone for your help in my wine making journey,and Wish everyone a Healthy and Joyful Holidays.....

 

[Putterrr]

I prefer for do all you mentioned in one step. That way after 3 weeks of clearing/sitting, i can rack off the sediment and then leave the wine to bulk age. Even with doing this, there is still a small amount of sediment that falls out over the next 6 months or so (more with the reds than the whites)

I have an EP Chard in bulk storage and an EP Pinot Grigio that I will start soon. The chard was no different than any other white or red I've made and I anticipate no difficulties with the other one.

Cheers

 

[TonyP]

Kit makers create simple instructions for the masses and must assume each kit maker is making their first wine. Alternatively, over time wine makers tweak their approach to whatever works best for them. This could involve aging, racking, and much more.

My approach is to spread the process over a longer period than instructions indicate. I clarify the wine within a month or two even though I bulk age and know the wine will clarify naturally over time.

 

[BernardSmith]

I have never made wines from kits but it looks like the kit manufacturers are trying to satisfy the need that many folk have for near instant gratification. If they can get your wine in the bottle sooner rather than later than you are more likely to buy another kit in part because you successfully completed the process and in part because your carboy is empty. Like most other activities, it is easier to get someone who has engaged once to re-engage than it is to pick up a completely new punter.

 

[eblasmn9]

I tend to bulk age all of my wines for some period of time. The whites I keep in the carboy for at least 3 months. The reds I age between 7 and 12 months depending on whether I need a carboy for another wine. The most important thing for me is to get the stablizers (kmeta and sorbate) on the wine when it says to. Also very important is to get it degassed. After that I pretty much add clarifiers when I want. There have been many times with winexpert white kits at the end of day 20 when I add stabilizers the wine is almost completely clear. When I add the isinglass or chitosan and stir the sediment back up it takes another 3 weeks to clear. I think I would be better off racking off lees at that point, stablilizing and letting the rest of the sediment fall out naturally over the next 3 months.

 

[Putterrr]

I always rack off the lees before adding sorbate, kmeta, and fining regardless of what the instructions say. I have never had a wine that has not cleared. I just can't see the point of stirring everything up just to clear it again. IMHO the main benefits from not racking first is the brew on premises store saves a step. If you have hundreds of kits on the go, the time saved racking would be considerable.

cheers

 

[TonyP]

In a fairly short period of time cells of dead yeast breakdown, gradually releasing various compounds into the wine. These compounds can impact wine body, aroma, stability and tannins.

Maintaining wine contact with the cells (fine lees), known as sur lie aging, enhances wine structure and complexity. In addition, as yeast cells degrade, the chemical reaction reduces oxygen levels.

Stirring in the lees (referred to as batonnage) increases release of yeast compound residuals into the wine. Many, but not all, commercial wines (particularly Burgundies) are aged in this manner.

The biggest concern with batonnage relates to the potential introduction of air into the process and care must be given.

 

[Ricky]

I prefer for do all you mentioned in one step. OK....Great i thought i was doing something wrong

 

[Ricky]

I tend to bulk age all of my wines for some period of time. The whites I keep in the carboy for at least 3 months. The reds I age between 7 and 12 months depending on whether I need a carboy for another wine. The most important thing for me is to get the stablizers (kmeta and sorbate) on the wine when it says to. Also very important is to get it degassed. After that I pretty much add clarifiers when I want. There have been many times with winexpert white kits at the end of day 20 when I add stabilizers the wine is almost completely clear. When I add the isinglass or chitosan and stir the sediment back up it takes another 3 weeks to clear. I think I would be better off racking off lees at that point, stablilizing and letting the rest of the sediment fall out naturally over the next 3 months.

agree,...that seems to be the time frame that pretty much all the HEAVY HITTERS are going by 6-12 for reds and 3-6 for whites.... my next kit i`m gonna hold off on clearing...and see what happens,Thanks

 

[Ricky]

I always rack off the lees before adding sorbate, kmeta, and fining regardless of what the instructions say. I have never had a wine that has not cleared. I just can't see the point of stirring everything up just to clear it again. IMHO the main benefits from not racking first is the brew on premises store saves a step. If you have hundreds of kits on the go, the time saved racking would be considerable.

cheers

winexperts claim it will not clear doin it that why...racking before adding the clearing agent

 

[Ricky]

In a fairly short period of time cells of dead yeast breakdown, gradually releasing various compounds into the wine. These compounds can impact wine body, aroma, stability and tannins.

Maintaining wine contact with the cells (fine lees), known as sur lie aging, enhances wine structure and complexity. In addition, as yeast cells degrade, the chemical reaction reduces oxygen levels.

Stirring in the lees (referred to as batonnage) increases release of yeast compound residuals into the wine. Many, but not all, commercial wines (particularly Burgundies) are aged in this manner.

The biggest concern with batonnage relates to the potential introduction of air into the process and care must be given.

Thanks Tony, the first part of your reply is gross lees.... and do you think it`s save to leave a batch on the fine lees for a longer period of time say ...6 months....it won`t leave a bitter flavor?

 

[Putterrr]

winexperts claim it will not clear doin it that why...racking before adding the clearing agent

What can I tell you. I rack from the secondary to clean carboy degass, add the chemicals and clarifier and let sit at room temp. I have 2 sitting now that are very clear after only 10 days. I will leave them for another 11 days and rack for bulk aging. I treat red or white, RJS or WE kits exactly the same way

I have a friend that also racks off the lees then adds the chemicals. He's been doing the selections kits for 20 years times at least 15 kits a year with no issues. In fact he didn't even know they had changed the instructions. He's made so many, he doesn't even look at the instructions sheet except to right down the date started. Maybe it would be an issue if you're in a rush to bottle on day 42.

cheers

 

[TonyP]

Thanks Tony, the first part of your reply is gross lees.... and do you think it`s save to leave a batch on the fine lees for a longer period of time say ...6 months....it won`t leave a bitter flavor?

I certainly wasn't as clear as I should have been, but was talking about fine lees only. Gross lees should be removed soon after vigorous fermentation is complete, which is why wine makers rack from bucket to carboy after 5-7 days.

Fine lees won't impart bitter flavors under most circumstances, but don't always add a lot either. I usually rack out the remaining yeast cells after 3 months with many wines except Burgundy-based wines such as Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc.