Question for the knowledgable

[malisk]

If I don't have a hydrometer, what is the next best way to tell if primary fermentation is over and ready to move to a carboy? Mine is in the mail and I just want to make sure I don't hesitate and risk oxygen spoilage.

I initially started this primary fermentation a little over a week ago, but since it was my first time, had it in too cold of an area (sub 50) and due to that didn't get to the point of massive bubbling fermentation until this past Friday when I moved it somewhere warmer. It finally is starting to die down (still bubbling but not insanely). This was a red wine kit.

 

[TonyP]

First, welcome to the forum. In my view, nothing replaces a hydrometer. There is some science to wine making and working without a hydrometer is like baking without measuring cups.

Here's some guesses. You have three risks: exposure to gross lees, too little oxygen, exposure to oxygen. If you have wine with grapes, skins, or similar bulk, rack within 10 days. Without these, exposure to oxygen is your greatest risk. Leave it alone until the hydrometer arrives.

 

[Rocky]

I agree with Tony's comments about the importance of a hydrometer. In your situation (and not knowing where you are in the fermentation cycle) with the activity dying down, I would err on the side of caution and get the wine into a carboy under airlock. May be overly cautious, but better safe than sorry.

 

[derunner]

I wonder if there is some sort of glass or plastic tube you could use to make a hydrometer. add some weight/wax in bottom and see how far it floats in plain water. that should be 1.000. then see how it floats in you wine. if it floats higher in your wine, then SG is still higher than 1.000. if lower it is below 1.000.

Not sure what you can use. I just tried a candy thermometer, but there is no weight at the bottom so it does not stay upright. Perhaps you could dangle on a thread and when it starts to lean you are the point it would float. And then compare that to your wine.

 

[Julie]

Ok, just want to make sure I have this correct. You started this a little over a week ago and it did not start right away. So I'm thinking your wine has only been fermenting roughly about a week. And you have a hydrometer coming.

Snap the lid down on the primary, add an airlock and wait for the hydrometer, it should be coming any day now, right?

It would, also, help if we knew what you were making and what your recipe was.

 

[JohnnyRico]

I agree, wait for it..

 

[GreginND]

I wonder if there is some sort of glass or plastic tube you could use to make a hydrometer. add some weight/wax in bottom and see how far it floats in plain water. that should be 1.000. then see how it floats in you wine. if it floats higher in your wine, then SG is still higher than 1.000. if lower it is below 1.000.

Not sure what you can use. I just tried a candy thermometer, but there is no weight at the bottom so it does not stay upright. Perhaps you could dangle on a thread and when it starts to lean you are the point it would float. And then compare that to your wine.

Well, I suppose but it would cost more in time and money to make something like this than it would be to buy a proper hydrometer.

 

[JohnT]

First, I agree with all of the above.

However, why not simply taste it? If it tastes at all sweet, then it aint done.

This is very imprecise, I know, but you can at least run on the theory that if there is sugar present, and you are fermenting to dry, then you have a ways to go.

 

[malisk]

Thanks for all the responses. It is a vino Italiano valpolicella 4 week kit. When I got home last night I moved it to a much colder area of my house to slow everything down. This morning I checked and there was no physical signs of fermentation so I clamped the lid on the primary down and am just waiting for my hydrometer. Chances are it is ready to be moved to secondary judging by the amount of fermentation and the crazy drop off (even before I moved it). Is there any danger really to racking it to secondary when I get home today without measuring on a hydrometer?

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

It might not be done yet - you moved it to a cold area - which could stall the fermentation until the temps get back up.

You can transfer to carboy - but something yeast and nutrients get left behind and you get a stuck fermentation if you transfer to soon.

I think Julie had it right - I don't think you have had but maybe 4-5 days of fermentation - you cooled it back down and stalled it.

I would snap the lid on with an airlock - get it back into warmer temps - wait for the hydrometer.

 

[malisk]

Welcome aboard!!!

It might not be done yet - you moved it to a cold area - which could stall the fermentation until the temps get back up.

You can transfer to carboy - but something yeast and nutrients get left behind and you get a stuck fermentation if you transfer to soon.

I think Julie had it right - I don't think you have had but maybe 4-5 days of fermentation - you cooled it back down and stalled it.

I would snap the lid on with an airlock - get it back into warmer temps - wait for the hydrometer.

Thanks - my main worry now is oxygen, which is why I moved it to stall it and clamped it down. It was fermenting voraciously since Friday (bubbling that is), but has really died down a ton before I even moved it. All in all it's been about 11 days since I started it.

So you think I should move it back to warm temps but this time clamp it down ? (Usually I had the lid just covering it but not clamped)

 

[GreginND]

It sounds like fermentation is done or nearly done. It needs to go into a carboy, topped up and with an airlock. Just clamping a lid on the primary still leaves a lot of surface area for oxygenation.

 

[malisk]

It sounds like fermentation is done or nearly done. It needs to go into a carboy, topped up and with an airlock. Just clamping a lid on the primary still leaves a lot of surface area for oxygenation.

Thanks for the response. When I do move it to the carboy, is temperature just as important? Should I still keep it in the closet I had it which was much warmer or will the cold not make that big of a difference? Easy to do for me either way just want to so it correctly.

 

[grapeman]

Absolutely temperature is critical- keep it in the 68-75 range for most kits for the yeast to work right. You may have stalled it. Move it back to the warmer room and leave it in the pail , snap the lid down and airlock like Julie said. The hydrometer will arrive soon. You have veered away from the instructions so go by SG, not days. Don't rush it and you will be happier in the end.

 

[NoSnob]

You have been provided some excellent responses. My only addition would be that in the future you should seriously consider buying your hydrometers two at a time. My LHBS is closed on Mondays and wouldn't you know it that was the day mine broke. It was only a one day wait but I decided to always have an extra on hand.

NS

 

[malisk]

You have been provided some excellent responses. My only addition would be that in the future you should seriously consider buying your hydrometers two at a time. My LHBS is closed on Mondays and wouldn't you know it that was the day mine broke. It was only a one day wait but I decided to always have an extra on hand.

NS

Thanks - unfortunately I was gifted this kit so until I received it and started really reading into it I didn't know the importance or significance of much of anything.

I have gotten two separate responses from people though regarding whether I should rack this now or wait a few more days until my hydrometer arrives. What do you think? I am very concerned with oxygen spoilage

 

[GreginND]

Grapeman says to keep it in the pail and I suggested getting it into a carboy.

I don't think it will make much difference in the next few days as long as you put it under an airlock. There is still a lot of CO2 dissolved in the wine to give it some protection in the very near term.

I don't think it would hurt anything to get it into a carboy even if it is still fermenting. It sounds from your description that fermentation has slowed down a lot so it is getting close to the end anyway.

But if you want to wait a couple days until you get your airlock and test it before the carboy, it won't spoil in that time.

 

[malisk]

Grapeman says to keep it in the pail and I suggested getting it into a carboy.

I don't think it will make much difference in the next few days as long as you put it under an airlock. There is still a lot of CO2 dissolved in the wine to give it some protection in the very near term.

I don't think it would hurt anything to get it into a carboy even if it is still fermenting. It sounds from your description that fermentation has slowed down a lot so it is getting close to the end anyway.

But if you want to wait a couple days until you get your airlock and test it before the carboy, it won't spoil in that time.

Thanks again. I guess my only question left is are there any actual problems that arise from racking too early? And what I mean by this is that the majority of the primary fermentation is already over (yeast multiplied and then foamed like crazy for a few days and died down) - is there any real noticeable difference between putting it in the carboy a few days "early" as long as it isn't fermenting enough to blow the bung off ?

 

[GreginND]

Thanks again. I guess my only question left is are there any actual problems that arise from racking too early? And what I mean by this is that the majority of the primary fermentation is already over (yeast multiplied and then foamed like crazy for a few days and died down) - is there any real noticeable difference between putting it in the carboy a few days "early" as long as it isn't fermenting enough to blow the bung off ?

No. But you still need an airlock, not a sealed bung. It will blow even if "slowly" fermenting. I have racked to carboy many times at gravities of 1.00 to 1.05. Many people actually carry out the entire fermentation in a carboy.

 

[malisk]

Wow. Apparently my shipment from Midwest today, along with hydrometer, came. Except that they didn't include star San and instead wrote "on back order" on my receipt. Not even a call so I could make secondary plans. Is this normal business practice for them? I live way outside any city that has a homebrew store and was entirely reliant on this. Now I am completely stalled.