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Plastic Vs Glass Carboys For Vacuum Transfers

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we5inelgr

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Hi all,

Does anyone use only plastic carboys for wine making that includes only vacuum transfers / racking?

I've seen the video of Steve doing the vacuum transfer from a glass carboy into a plastic one...but not a vacuum transfer that involves plastic on both ends.

I like the idea of going with all plastic, for safety reasons. However, it seems like plastic isn't as durable in that it's obviously more susceptible to scratches, which wouldn't be ideal for the wine making process. But if it's a matter of carefully washing a good quality plastic carboy (that won't leach stuff into the wine) that lessons scratching, I'd rather go with all plastic as long as they can be used on both ends of the vacuum transfer.

The vacuum pump has a ~1 bar (14psi) max.

Primary ferment in ss tank.
Vacuum transfer to plastic carboys
Rack to other plastic carboys via vacuum pump
repeat as necessary
Vacuum pump from plastic carboys into wine bottles.

Is that possible? :?

Or, is it just better to go with good Italian made glass carboys and be done with it?
 

Johnd

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Hi all,

Does anyone use only plastic carboys for wine making that includes only vacuum transfers / racking?

I've seen the video of Steve doing the vacuum transfer from a glass carboy into a plastic one...but not a vacuum transfer that involves plastic on both ends.

I like the idea of going with all plastic, for safety reasons. However, it seems like plastic isn't as durable in that it's obviously more susceptible to scratches, which wouldn't be ideal for the wine making process. But if it's a matter of carefully washing a good quality plastic carboy (that won't leach stuff into the wine) that lessons scratching, I'd rather go with all plastic as long as they can be used on both ends of the vacuum transfer.

The vacuum pump has a ~1 bar (14psi) max.

Primary ferment in ss tank.
Vacuum transfer to plastic carboys
Rack to other plastic carboys via vacuum pump
repeat as necessary
Vacuum pump from plastic carboys into wine bottles.

Is that possible? :?

Or, is it just better to go with good Italian made glass carboys and be done with it?
There's no vacuum created in the vessel you are racking from, only the one you are racking into. Steve's system allows you to adjust for racking into plastic. All you listed is possible.
 

we5inelgr

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There's no vacuum created in the vessel you are racking from, only the one you are racking into. Steve's system allows you to adjust for racking into plastic. All you listed is possible.
So even though the vessel that the liquid is coming from is stoppered, the removal of the liquid doesn't create a negative pressure...it's simply neutral (or no change)?
 
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Johnd

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So even though the vessel that the liquid is coming from is stoppered, the removal of the liquid doesn't create a negative pressure...it's simply neutral (or no change)?
Like any racking, as the liquid is removed, it must be replace by the gas of your choice. Just take the stopper out and use air, or some other pressurized gas of your choosing.
 

we5inelgr

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If you have any other questions or concerns - you can always PM me and I can call you and explain more in detail
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of too much oxidation by leaving the first (initial) carboy un-stoppered. Meaning, I had to leave it stoppered while transferring wine out...which I believe would cause negative pressure.

However, since the transfer process is fairly quick for a 5/6 gallon carboy, it seems like there wouldn't be too much oxidation going on.

Guess I could always use a two hole bung and just leave one hole open. But that would probably end up being essentially the same as just leaving it open.

Using an inert gas for replacement sounds interesting...just wondering how the flow into the carboy would be done to match the outflowing wine.

Anyway, I'll PM you soon Steve when I'm ready to get your accessory set ups for this.

Thank you.
 

vacuumpumpman

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Yeah, I was thinking in terms of too much oxidation by leaving the first (initial) carboy un-stoppered. Meaning, I had to leave it stoppered while transferring wine out...which I believe would cause negative pressure.

However, since the transfer process is fairly quick for a 5/6 gallon carboy, it seems like there wouldn't be too much oxidation going on.

Guess I could always use a two hole bung and just leave one hole open. But that would probably end up being essentially the same as just leaving it open.

Using an inert gas for replacement sounds interesting...just wondering how the flow into the carboy would be done to match the outflowing wine.

Anyway, I'll PM you soon Steve when I'm ready to get your accessory set ups for this.

Thank you.
Yes -
You can add any argon or CO2 or any other inert gas into the open headspace ( of the wine that you are transferring from ) while transferring - if you so desire. It only takes 4 minutes to transfer a 6 gallon carboy. So there is very little oxygen contact .

If you are overally concerned - also flood the empty carboy with some inert gas - prior to transferring into it
 

Arne

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Don't know for sure what it would take, but you could try pressurizing the donor carboy and push the wine over. You would have to manufacture some kind of stopper that would hold the little pressure it would take to move the wine. Just a thought. Arne.
 

salcoco

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why the concern. the amount of exposure racking with the pump from the open container is not any longer that doing a manual siphon. Many winemakers have done it that way before the pump was available and have not reported a problem. I think to much thinking.
 

Johnd

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Yeah, I was thinking in terms of too much oxidation by leaving the first (initial) carboy un-stoppered. Meaning, I had to leave it stoppered while transferring wine out...which I believe would cause negative pressure.

Using an inert gas for replacement sounds interesting...just wondering how the flow into the carboy would be done to match the outflowing wine.
I wasn't suggesting that you actually do that (inject inert gas), I was only trying to be responsive to your question. My opinion is that it's perfectly fine to perform your racking from an open vessel and just let air fill the space as the wine moves. Oxidation doesn't occur quickly enough to cause any sort of problems with a normal transfer of wine, especially when followed by a topped up vessel, a good air lock on your vessel, and proper sulfite levels. Those three things are your REAL protection from oxidation...........
 

we5inelgr

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why the concern. the amount of exposure racking with the pump from the open container is not any longer that doing a manual siphon. Many winemakers have done it that way before the pump was available and have not reported a problem. I think to much thinking.
lol, yup...guilty as charged. guess it's the analytical chemist / biochemist in me and the fact that this will be my maiden vintage :ib
 

we5inelgr

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I wasn't suggesting that you actually do that (inject inert gas), I was only trying to be responsive to your question. My opinion is that it's perfectly fine to perform your racking from an open vessel and just let air fill the space as the wine moves. Oxidation doesn't occur quickly enough to cause any sort of problems with a normal transfer of wine, especially when followed by a topped up vessel, a good air lock on your vessel, and proper sulfite levels. Those three things are your REAL protection from oxidation...........
understood John. thanks again for the info/advice.
 

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