I've made some wine by an old recipe I found in a cookbook. The recipe didn't call for Bentonite, oak, sulfites, or any clarifying agents and as I'm a beginner, I wasn't even aware I needed any.At this point, after 4 weeks, I don't want to add any chemicals (except maybe something to stop any left over yeast growth). The wine has a nice fruity, natural taste and is very sweet, and I like it, but is not clear. What can I add to it at this point that would make it clear? Anything that's NOT a chemical? Is it ok to drink it cloudy?
No chemicals
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Welcome BirdWoman. Glad to have you stop in.
I would say that a very large percentage of new home winemakers have the same aspirations as you and begin by using an old recipe and no chemicals. That often (but not always) changes after a few less then great batches.
One type of clarifier you could use would be bentonite. It is a clay product and as such is a natural product. It can be used pre or post fermentation, but is normally used pre-fermentation with kits. It should help clear the wine some.
A lot of the old recipes turn out sweet which suites many new wine drinkers because it uses a bread yeast, which often dies out before the wine goes dry.
I would say that a very large percentage of new home winemakers have the same aspirations as you and begin by using an old recipe and no chemicals. That often (but not always) changes after a few less then great batches.
One type of clarifier you could use would be bentonite. It is a clay product and as such is a natural product. It can be used pre or post fermentation, but is normally used pre-fermentation with kits. It should help clear the wine some.
A lot of the old recipes turn out sweet which suites many new wine drinkers because it uses a bread yeast, which often dies out before the wine goes dry.
Wayne1
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If you can let it sit for a number of months, it may clear on its own without doing anything to it. The container would need to be fairly full, however, so that the wine does not have too much contact with oxygen.
It is fine to drink it cloudy - it probably even has extra nutrients that way! As far as I know, clearing it is for aesthetic purposes as most people just don't want to see anything floating in their glass of wine.
It is fine to drink it cloudy - it probably even has extra nutrients that way! As far as I know, clearing it is for aesthetic purposes as most people just don't want to see anything floating in their glass of wine.
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Bentonite would work well for clearing it and is used in most kit wines. It is a natural product and has other uses in home medicine besides clearing wine. Here is a short writeup on some of it's uses in the human body.
<H3>What is Bentonite?</H3>Alternate Names: Bentonite clay, montmorillonite
Bentonite is a clay that is available in supplement form. The primary ingredient in bentonite is hydrated aluminum silicate. Other constituents in bentonite include calcium, magnesium, and iron (the composition varies according to the geographical location in which it is found).
Once in the body, bentonite easily absorbs water. It remains in the digestive tract and is believed to bind and inactivate toxins and promote their excretion.
<H3>Why Do People Use Bentonite?</H3>Detoxification
Constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Bloating and gas
A large double-blind, placebo-controlled study examined the use of bentonite clay in people with irritable bowel syndrome. Bentonite appeared to work best for people with constipation-predominant IBS. People taking the bentonite clay experienced a significant improvement in abdominal discomfort and pain. Bentonite users also reported significantly better symptom reduction and treatment efficacy with bentonite. There were no significant adverse events reported.
<H3>Dosage Information</H3>Bentonite is available in liquid or powder form. It is a popular ingredient in colon cleanse products.
Bentonite should be taken with plenty of water to avoid intestinal obstruction or constipation.
<H3>Side Effects and Safety</H3>Pregnant or nursing women and the elderly should avoid bentonite.
Bentonite should not be taken two hours before or after medication or nutritional supplements.
Although there haven't been adverse effects in amounts used in nutritional supplements, there are no studies on the long-term safety of bentonite in humans.
Created on 03/30/06
Sources
Abdel-Wahhab MA, Nada SA, Farag IM, et al. Potential protective effect of HSCAS and bentonite against dietary aflatoxicosis in rat: with special reference to chromosomal aberrations. Nat Toxins.1998; 6:211-218.
Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L. Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial. Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2005 Feb 15;21(4):435-44.
Santurio JM, Mallmann CA, Rosa AP, et al. Effect of sodium bentonite on the performance and blood variables of broiler chickens intoxicated with aflatoxins. Br Poult Sci. 1999; 40:115-119.
Here is another link to a good description of it's use in wine
http://homewinery.info/viewarticle.php?id=13
<H3>What is Bentonite?</H3>Alternate Names: Bentonite clay, montmorillonite
Bentonite is a clay that is available in supplement form. The primary ingredient in bentonite is hydrated aluminum silicate. Other constituents in bentonite include calcium, magnesium, and iron (the composition varies according to the geographical location in which it is found).
Once in the body, bentonite easily absorbs water. It remains in the digestive tract and is believed to bind and inactivate toxins and promote their excretion.
<H3>Why Do People Use Bentonite?</H3>Detoxification
Constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Bloating and gas
A large double-blind, placebo-controlled study examined the use of bentonite clay in people with irritable bowel syndrome. Bentonite appeared to work best for people with constipation-predominant IBS. People taking the bentonite clay experienced a significant improvement in abdominal discomfort and pain. Bentonite users also reported significantly better symptom reduction and treatment efficacy with bentonite. There were no significant adverse events reported.
<H3>Dosage Information</H3>Bentonite is available in liquid or powder form. It is a popular ingredient in colon cleanse products.
Bentonite should be taken with plenty of water to avoid intestinal obstruction or constipation.
<H3>Side Effects and Safety</H3>Pregnant or nursing women and the elderly should avoid bentonite.
Bentonite should not be taken two hours before or after medication or nutritional supplements.
Although there haven't been adverse effects in amounts used in nutritional supplements, there are no studies on the long-term safety of bentonite in humans.
Created on 03/30/06
Sources
Abdel-Wahhab MA, Nada SA, Farag IM, et al. Potential protective effect of HSCAS and bentonite against dietary aflatoxicosis in rat: with special reference to chromosomal aberrations. Nat Toxins.1998; 6:211-218.
Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L. Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial. Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2005 Feb 15;21(4):435-44.
Santurio JM, Mallmann CA, Rosa AP, et al. Effect of sodium bentonite on the performance and blood variables of broiler chickens intoxicated with aflatoxins. Br Poult Sci. 1999; 40:115-119.
Here is another link to a good description of it's use in wine
http://homewinery.info/viewarticle.php?id=13
Don't know if I'm posting this right or not, don't know anything about wine or forums! So if I'm doing this incorrectly, please pardon me!
Thanks you your response. What kind of wine and how much, you ask? I know how much, 11 gallons, but I'm a beginner, remember? I made it from concord grapes so I don't know what you'd call it....Red wine? Grape wine? I call it WICKI WINE, after a friend of mine!
Thanks you your response. What kind of wine and how much, you ask? I know how much, 11 gallons, but I'm a beginner, remember? I made it from concord grapes so I don't know what you'd call it....Red wine? Grape wine? I call it WICKI WINE, after a friend of mine!
Tepe- How many egg whites for 5 gallons of wine and how long do I let it set after that? Are raw egg whites safe to use in the wine?
My old recipe didn't call for grapes, it called for grape juice concentrate. I don't have the exact recipe with me, but I will try to bring it to work with me on Tuesday and I'll send it to you and whoever wants it. But this summer, I'll try it again with all the wild Mustang grapes I'll pick off of my property! I've made Mustage grape jelly for years, this year I'll try them with wine!
My old recipe didn't call for grapes, it called for grape juice concentrate. I don't have the exact recipe with me, but I will try to bring it to work with me on Tuesday and I'll send it to you and whoever wants it. But this summer, I'll try it again with all the wild Mustang grapes I'll pick off of my property! I've made Mustage grape jelly for years, this year I'll try them with wine!
Tom
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One egg white for 5 gallons.
Raw egg whitesare safe so dont worry. They have something in them that I cant pronounce or say that bonds with the "floaties" and drops them out of suspension.
After you add that wait 1 -2 weeks. You will see the wine clear on its own. kinda cool to watch the clearing thru the glass.
Keep us posted with this wine.
Raw egg whitesare safe so dont worry. They have something in them that I cant pronounce or say that bonds with the "floaties" and drops them out of suspension.
After you add that wait 1 -2 weeks. You will see the wine clear on its own. kinda cool to watch the clearing thru the glass.
Keep us posted with this wine.
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/
Here is Jack Keller's site, he has some recipes for Mustang grape wine, and most any kind of wine you might want to make. What kind of containers do you have the wine in now? With no chemicals (K meta) it will spoil if you aren't careful.
Here is Jack Keller's site, he has some recipes for Mustang grape wine, and most any kind of wine you might want to make. What kind of containers do you have the wine in now? With no chemicals (K meta) it will spoil if you aren't careful.
Jeff-
I have my wine in two large plastic bottles like Ozarka water comes in. I know glass would be better, but for my trial batch, I'm just using these. I have an airlock on them and they are in my cool-temperatured garage. They are 4 weeks old this Saturday. I guess I didn't know wine would spoil. Will bottling it keep it from spoiling?
I have my wine in two large plastic bottles like Ozarka water comes in. I know glass would be better, but for my trial batch, I'm just using these. I have an airlock on them and they are in my cool-temperatured garage. They are 4 weeks old this Saturday. I guess I didn't know wine would spoil. Will bottling it keep it from spoiling?
Ok let's see here, as long as there is very little head space you will be ok for a while. There are many things that caneffect wines and the chances something can go wrong with them.
If you look at a commercial bottle of wine it normally says contains sulfites. These sulfites are a buginhibitor. After fermentation they are added to keep nasties from making a home in your wine.
The higher the alcohol levels the less chances of nasties trying to take over. You said your wine was sweet, therefore the wine must not have a very high alcohol content, so a larger chance of spoilage.
There are people and some commercial producers who do not sulfite there wines. Al Fulchino of the forum uses a natural approach to his wine making and seems to have good results.
I will recommend you call George and get yourself a bottle of potmeta, add the recommended amount and let it sit for six months.
If you look at a commercial bottle of wine it normally says contains sulfites. These sulfites are a buginhibitor. After fermentation they are added to keep nasties from making a home in your wine.
The higher the alcohol levels the less chances of nasties trying to take over. You said your wine was sweet, therefore the wine must not have a very high alcohol content, so a larger chance of spoilage.
There are people and some commercial producers who do not sulfite there wines. Al Fulchino of the forum uses a natural approach to his wine making and seems to have good results.
I will recommend you call George and get yourself a bottle of potmeta, add the recommended amount and let it sit for six months.
Hi and welcome. Glad to have you join.
We are all concerned about the chemicals in our wines. Most of them are simple acids removed from fruit (acid blend, ect) , ground up grape stems (tannin) clay dirt (bentonite ) and sulfite clears by killing yeast and protects your wine. if you tested our wines they would have much less in them than store bought and you can taste the difference.
I would have more of a concern about the alcohol leaching the chemicals out of the water jugs that you are using. The plastic better bottles that some of us use are made for wine. ( I use glass) I myself made a batch of wine in a water jug before I knew better.
This is a very friendly site. If you have any questions about anything including the chemicals that most use. just ask. we even have at least one chemist here.
We are all concerned about the chemicals in our wines. Most of them are simple acids removed from fruit (acid blend, ect) , ground up grape stems (tannin) clay dirt (bentonite ) and sulfite clears by killing yeast and protects your wine. if you tested our wines they would have much less in them than store bought and you can taste the difference.
I would have more of a concern about the alcohol leaching the chemicals out of the water jugs that you are using. The plastic better bottles that some of us use are made for wine. ( I use glass) I myself made a batch of wine in a water jug before I knew better.
This is a very friendly site. If you have any questions about anything including the chemicals that most use. just ask. we even have at least one chemist here.
smurfe
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Welcome to the forums. The clearing agentyou choose should be based on what is causing the cloudy wine. Is it proteins or yeast? When you figure that out you choose a fining agent. I found this page that coverer's the various fining agent quite well. I would personally get a packet of Super Kleer KC and call it a day.
Source: http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/fining.htm
Most winemakers use one or another of the available fining agents prior to filtering and think of fining only as a clarifying agent. While that is indeed the main purpose for fining any wine, fining actually can be done for several other reasons including colour, odour, flavour and stability.
The most commonly-used fining agents perform their tasks by attracting the positively and negatively charged particles in the unclear wine as they, the fining agents, also have positive and negative charges. Examples include bentonite(-), Sparkolloid(-), gelatine(+) and egg white(+), and silicon dioxide or kieselsol(-). Usually bentonite and egg whites are used by themselves, but gelatine followed by kieselsol is commonly used to fine white wines.
Other commonly-used finings include carbon (charcoal) and PVPP (polyvinylpolypyrolidone), also called polyclar, a synthetic fining agent, which do not carry electrical charges. They work by adsorbtion: condensing and holding a gas or soluble substance upon their surfaces.
Bentonite is probably the choice of most winemakers, as it is easy to prepare and easy to use. It is prepared as a 5% slurry by mixing 50 grams of bentonite powder into one litre of hot water. It is important that the resultant mixture be very smooth and free of lumps, so it is recommended that the slurry be prepared in a blender. Let the slurry stand for at least twenty-four hours and stirred well prior to use. The standard dosage is 4.5 cc per litre. Over-fining with bentonite may strip wine flavour, reduce body and colour in young red wines and impart an earthy flavour.
Gelatine is used for two basic reasons: clarification and reduction of overly astringent wines. It is also used prior to fermentation in order to reduce astringency and improve clarity. Gelatine is usually used with kieselsol, the two opposing electrical charges attracting most of the suspended solids. Gelatine is prepared from a powder form much finer than that used for cooking (look for 100 bloom, the measure of gelatine particles) at the rate of between 0.02 to 0.04 grams per litre. It may be necessary to use more than the recommended amount if the object is to reduce astringency. It is best to do lab tests before treating the entire batch, particularly if the intent is to reduce astringency. To prepare gelatine, mix the desired quantity in a small amount of very hot water and stir until it is dissolved. Once it has been dissolved, stir it into the wine. Liquid gelatine is available from R.J. Spagnols with a recommended addition rate of 0.66 cc per liter of wine. As a standard mixture, it works well enough with kieselsol for clarification, but if astringency reduction is desired, it is best to experiment with gelatine powder. Also, unless it comes in less than one litre containers or it is not used up in reasonable time, it can deteriorate, as it is an animal protein,
Egg White or albumen is a common fining agent for red wines because it reduces the harsher tannins. Some winemakers claim that it imparts a silkiness to the wine. Egg whites are used at the rate of 3 to 4 per twenty-five gallon barrel. Since egg white contains both albumens (soluble in water) and globulin (insoluble), a bit of salt is necessary. Whip the whites into the water and salt until a smooth mixture is attained without foam, which will float on the surface of the wine and be ineffective.
Kieselsol is the commercial name for liquid silicon dioxide and is readily available from R.J. Spagnols. It is used to reduce bitter components from white wines, and used with gelatine is a very effective clarifying agent. While the directions on the label recommend 2.2 cc per litre, addition at the rate of 1.4 cc per litre seems to be effective.
In the strictest sense, carbon and PVPP are not fining agents in that they are not used for clarifying. Rather, they are used to remove or reduce oxidative odours and to reduce browning in white wines and reduce the "pinking" effects of some grape varieties.
Carbon (activated charcoal) is used to remove colour - decolorizing carbon, and to remove off-odours such as oxidation - deodorizing carbon, and is usually used in conjunction with PVPP as oxidized white wines generally show a brown tinge. Use at the rate of 0.025 to 0.6 grams per litre. It is best to make lab tests before adding to the entire batch, as too much carbon will strip the wine of both flavour and colour. Since carbon is a very fine powder, it may be desirable to use bentonite also in order to compact the sediment.
PVPP removes the brown effect from oxidized white wine and is used to prevent the pink colour from some grapes. If used to remove the brown colour, it should be used in conjunction with carbon. Use at the rates between 0.12 to 0.72 grams per litre. As it is also a very fine powder, adding bentonite will compact the sediment.
Other finings include potassium caseinate, used to rid the wine of slight off-flavours and excess oak flavours; and tannin, used with gelatine, reduces the risk of colloidal hazes.
Each fining agent should be used for its intended purpose; and lab tests should be performed in order to determine the proper amount for the required task. If the first attempt does not do the job, it can be done again; but using too much of any fining agent can result in undesirable effects. Once the purpose has been achieved, usually within two to three weeks, the wine should be racked off the sediment in order to prevent unpleasant results from degradation of the sedimented materials.
Prepared by Bill CollingsÓ
January 18, 2002
Source: http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/fining.htm
Most winemakers use one or another of the available fining agents prior to filtering and think of fining only as a clarifying agent. While that is indeed the main purpose for fining any wine, fining actually can be done for several other reasons including colour, odour, flavour and stability.
The most commonly-used fining agents perform their tasks by attracting the positively and negatively charged particles in the unclear wine as they, the fining agents, also have positive and negative charges. Examples include bentonite(-), Sparkolloid(-), gelatine(+) and egg white(+), and silicon dioxide or kieselsol(-). Usually bentonite and egg whites are used by themselves, but gelatine followed by kieselsol is commonly used to fine white wines.
Other commonly-used finings include carbon (charcoal) and PVPP (polyvinylpolypyrolidone), also called polyclar, a synthetic fining agent, which do not carry electrical charges. They work by adsorbtion: condensing and holding a gas or soluble substance upon their surfaces.
Bentonite is probably the choice of most winemakers, as it is easy to prepare and easy to use. It is prepared as a 5% slurry by mixing 50 grams of bentonite powder into one litre of hot water. It is important that the resultant mixture be very smooth and free of lumps, so it is recommended that the slurry be prepared in a blender. Let the slurry stand for at least twenty-four hours and stirred well prior to use. The standard dosage is 4.5 cc per litre. Over-fining with bentonite may strip wine flavour, reduce body and colour in young red wines and impart an earthy flavour.
Gelatine is used for two basic reasons: clarification and reduction of overly astringent wines. It is also used prior to fermentation in order to reduce astringency and improve clarity. Gelatine is usually used with kieselsol, the two opposing electrical charges attracting most of the suspended solids. Gelatine is prepared from a powder form much finer than that used for cooking (look for 100 bloom, the measure of gelatine particles) at the rate of between 0.02 to 0.04 grams per litre. It may be necessary to use more than the recommended amount if the object is to reduce astringency. It is best to do lab tests before treating the entire batch, particularly if the intent is to reduce astringency. To prepare gelatine, mix the desired quantity in a small amount of very hot water and stir until it is dissolved. Once it has been dissolved, stir it into the wine. Liquid gelatine is available from R.J. Spagnols with a recommended addition rate of 0.66 cc per liter of wine. As a standard mixture, it works well enough with kieselsol for clarification, but if astringency reduction is desired, it is best to experiment with gelatine powder. Also, unless it comes in less than one litre containers or it is not used up in reasonable time, it can deteriorate, as it is an animal protein,
Egg White or albumen is a common fining agent for red wines because it reduces the harsher tannins. Some winemakers claim that it imparts a silkiness to the wine. Egg whites are used at the rate of 3 to 4 per twenty-five gallon barrel. Since egg white contains both albumens (soluble in water) and globulin (insoluble), a bit of salt is necessary. Whip the whites into the water and salt until a smooth mixture is attained without foam, which will float on the surface of the wine and be ineffective.
Kieselsol is the commercial name for liquid silicon dioxide and is readily available from R.J. Spagnols. It is used to reduce bitter components from white wines, and used with gelatine is a very effective clarifying agent. While the directions on the label recommend 2.2 cc per litre, addition at the rate of 1.4 cc per litre seems to be effective.
In the strictest sense, carbon and PVPP are not fining agents in that they are not used for clarifying. Rather, they are used to remove or reduce oxidative odours and to reduce browning in white wines and reduce the "pinking" effects of some grape varieties.
Carbon (activated charcoal) is used to remove colour - decolorizing carbon, and to remove off-odours such as oxidation - deodorizing carbon, and is usually used in conjunction with PVPP as oxidized white wines generally show a brown tinge. Use at the rate of 0.025 to 0.6 grams per litre. It is best to make lab tests before adding to the entire batch, as too much carbon will strip the wine of both flavour and colour. Since carbon is a very fine powder, it may be desirable to use bentonite also in order to compact the sediment.
PVPP removes the brown effect from oxidized white wine and is used to prevent the pink colour from some grapes. If used to remove the brown colour, it should be used in conjunction with carbon. Use at the rates between 0.12 to 0.72 grams per litre. As it is also a very fine powder, adding bentonite will compact the sediment.
Other finings include potassium caseinate, used to rid the wine of slight off-flavours and excess oak flavours; and tannin, used with gelatine, reduces the risk of colloidal hazes.
Each fining agent should be used for its intended purpose; and lab tests should be performed in order to determine the proper amount for the required task. If the first attempt does not do the job, it can be done again; but using too much of any fining agent can result in undesirable effects. Once the purpose has been achieved, usually within two to three weeks, the wine should be racked off the sediment in order to prevent unpleasant results from degradation of the sedimented materials.
Prepared by Bill CollingsÓ
January 18, 2002
PeterZ
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BirdWoman, everything is a chemical. The alchohol in the wine is ethanol. What I gather you want for a clarifying agent is something natural. As has been previously stated, bentonite is clay, and chitosan is made from the shells of crabs and shrimp. Either of those would be a "natural" clarifier that is easy to use.
