Inert Gas

[Randoneur]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but here goes:
Can I use shielding gas to purge the head space? C25 gas which I believe is 75% argon and 25% carbon dioxide.

 

[Runningwolf]

I use argon gas. Argon and Nitrogen can be used without any effects on the wine. C02 can be layerd on the wine to displace oxygen. Mixing C02 into the wine will give you a carbonated effect and can also give you an off flavor.

 

[Wade E]

I cant see why you couldnt. Both are acceptable gasses. I agree with what Dan said but unless your wine is like 40 degress its neasr impossible to get C02 into the wine without presurizing the wine to pretty high #'s. The warmer the temp the more volume of C02 you need. Let me tell you I tried to carbonate beer at warm temps and it doesnt work to well. I would noyt be concerned with getting C02 into youir wine. Now, that being said C02 isnt as good an option as its not as heavy as argon and doesnt blanket as well. I mainly use C02 because I already have it here for my kegs.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I also have used CO2 as I have a tank on the shelf - ready to go
but it is not the best to use though it does seem to work.

thanks steve
http://allinonewinepump.com/

 

[jswordy]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067EBKW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[joeswine]

gasesssssssss

HAVE BEEN USING DRY NITROGEN FOR YEARS AS A RULE OF THUMB.NO PROBLEMS WITH IT.

 

[JohnT]

One Question (and not meaning to be rude)..

Why?

if you are purging the air out of a carboy or demijohn, and then cap it with a fermentation trap, you will not be doing yourself much good. As barametric pressure and temperature changes, the airgap in you vessel will expand and contract. In effect, you vessel will "breathe". In only a short time, all of that inert gas will be gone.

If, on the other hand, you SEAL your vessel (solid stopper) then the air gap will remain the same. In other words, no new oxygen or bacteria will enter your vessel. If you add a touch of k-meta before you stopper, your wine will be fine.

If the air gap is large, you should really consider a smaller vessel.

johnT.

 

[joeswine]

pressure

prior to toping off my carboy,they are stirred and then I add nitrogen ,under pressure,put in the stopper and air lock,already filled with water,and watch the water level after insertion and the level on the positive stays full ,on the outside or negitive side is stable, then how do i loss the gas pressure,i can gage the air pressure inside from the outside by the balance in the airlock,if my seal is good then thats what should happen.,at least thats the way i understand it,if I put nitrogen in at 20psi,i should not lose that much and if ampheric press is 14.5 then I should have greater pressure inside as long as my seal is good.Oxodation is the tell tail sign of air over wine ,I have never had oxodized wine.,at least thats how I see it.

 

[Auburn-Bob]

I have a flask that I use for this purpose. I add water, then throw in some Alka-Seltzer tablets, and they make carbon dioxide.

 

[SarahRides]

I have a flask that I use for this purpose. I add water, then throw in some Alka-Seltzer tablets, and they make carbon dioxide.

So why not just put alka seltzer in the wine? Just kidding.

 

[Flem]

Can anyone suggest the parts and estimated prices to put together an argon gas set-up? Thanks!

 

[JohnT]

I still can't see the benefit.

If there is a small amount of air in the carboy, then exactly what are you pertecting the wine from? If that little bit of air can harm your wine, then what exactly do you think that racking will do to your wine?

On the flip side, I see no way that this can hurt the wine. It just seems to be unnecessary if your wine is balanced (PH) and has good tannins.

 

[ibglowin]

You can usually find cylinders for sale or rent from a local welding supply as well as Argon gas itself. You only need a small cylinder not one of the huge ones. You will also need a good 2 stage regulator or a flowmeter. Best place to pick up those is eBay more than likely. Attach a 3-4 foot length of tubing to the outlet of the regulator/flowmeter and your ready to backfill.

I use it to backfill headspace in carboys while I am waiting for it to clear after fining, I use it to backfill my 2L sep funnel that I fill up with gross lees that have been racked off. After letting them set for a day or so I can get as much as another full bottle of wine which is one less bottle I have to add as a top off wine.

Also as I have small barrels I use it to back fill my top off bottle that I use to top off the barrel every week. Since your only adding 2-3 oz every week that wine would be completely oxidized after a week or so if I didn't backfill it each week after using it to top up the barrel.

Argon is the perfect solution for all those short term headspace problems around the winery.

Can anyone suggest the parts and estimated prices to put together an argon gas set-up? Thanks!

 

[ibglowin]

Looks like Harbor freight has both cylinders and regulators at pretty decent prices.

Harbor Freight

 

[Flem]

Thank you, Michael!
Is there a particular pressure range I need to look for in a regulator or are they pretty standard?

 

[ibglowin]

They are all pretty standard. Argon cylinders are usually filled to ~2000psi so just make sure your regulator goes that high on the first stage. 2nd stage you will want to go from 0-100 max or so. Again they are all pretty standard.

 

[Flem]

Thanks, again!!

 

[Sudz]

One Question (and not meaning to be rude)..

As barometric pressure and temperature changes, the airgap in you vessel will expand and contract. In effect, you vessel will "breathe". In only a short time, all of that inert gas will be gone.
johnT.

Good points but I'm not sure of the breathing concern. Would not this only be true if the gas you used were lighter than air?

The dead space environment is basically dead air with very minimal movement due principally to the barometric breathing you pointed out. Even if the breathing were sufficient enough to pull air in and out past the trap, only the gas at the top would be effected to any extent in a modest sized carboy.

Any heavier gas would simply lay on top of the wine and assure protection even if some oxygen were to find it's way into the dead space. For oxygen to reach the wine, you would need to remove or exchange a significant amount of the shielding gas which will not occur if it is the heavier of the two. Some breathing exchange from the top gas layer "might" occur but this would only serve to exchange air with air, leaving the heavier gas to do it's job.

Now none of this holds true "if" the shielding gas mixes naturally with air upon contact. If this occurs, your description would be absolutely true. So I guess the question is, will argon maintain a separate layer in the dead space or become an equally dispersed component of any air which may find it's way into the dead space environment.

Unfortunately I don't know enough about argon to answer this question. It does exist naturally in the air we breathe as opposed to laying on my living room floor. But it also shields out air during TIG welding implying the two don't readily mix, at least to some extent.

Maybe someone could help us to further understand this issue?

I for one could benefit from using a shielding gas to eliminate air contact during conditioning. I've been using CO2 but have become convinced, CO2 may not remain viable for long periods as it does become absorbed by the wine. I have argon available and can switch to using it without much pain. But I don't want to go down this path unless it's truly effective.

Filling the dead space with wine or water is probably the best approach but unfortunately all my carboys are 6 1/2 gal which makes for a large dead space to fill. Hence I'd like to use a shielding gas.

 

[joeswine]

A guess by any other name

NITROGEN, ARGON, OR ANY OTHER INERT GAS LAYER DOES THE TRICK, IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE USING, LIKE WAS STATED THIS IS FOR SHORT-TERM NOT FOR THE LONG HAUL, BUT IT DOES WORK AND IT WORKS WELL.

 

[JohnT]

NITROGEN, ARGON, OR ANY OTHER INERT GAS LAYER DOES THE TRICK, IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE USING, LIKE WAS STATED THIS IS FOR SHORT-TERM NOT FOR THE LONG HAUL, BUT IT DOES WORK AND IT WORKS WELL.

Joe,

stop yelling at me (LOL).

IMHO, this is overkill and a lot of worry over nothing. It is a lot of money to spend to replace only a few cubic inches of head space that will not effect your wine in any noticable.

A well made wine will simply not oxidize when in contact with only a few cubic inches of air. In fact, that limited amount of air may serve to reduce the tanins (on a minimal scale) to make your wine softer.

If your worried about bacteria or some form of contamination, then I would suggest that you add a pinch of k-meta to the wine (each time you open the carboy) and that the fermentation trap is loaded with k-meta solution (to sterilize any air comming into the carboy over time).