Inert Gas

[Calamity Cellars]

What would be ideal is to make enough wine that you don't have any headspace. I love the idea of adding welches or some other grape juice to your kit juice or must pre-ferment so that you make sure you have enough wine to keep those carboys full.

 

[Wade E]

So many good points here. KI will step in and say I make a bunch of beer and a bunch of wine. and I can taste small amounts of C02 in wine. When I say small amounts I mean amounts beyond the norm. There shopuild always be some in wine as any wine without any at all would fall flat on its face. Anything over a loittle though and it wil have a bite that doesnt fit IMO withb any dark red grape wine and I take extreme measures to make sure there isnt any of that "extra C02" in my wine! Now in beer making which I am pretty darn familiar with I use C02 to carbonate it and I can tell you that just letting some on top wouldnt do a damn thing especially at room temp. I know this because until I got the fridge downstairs I had a really hard time carbing beer and wine. The warmer the temp the harder it is to carbonate just as it degases easier at warmwer temps. At about 35* its pretty easy though but still needs to really be pressurized to do so. I can see maybe a little getting into the wine at say 35* and the C02 layered on toip but at 70* it aint going. That being said its not that heavy at all and isnt going to stay in your carboy much either unless you use a solid bung and if there is any pressure changes (temp or barometric) then maybe a tiny bit will get into your wine but that would be easy enough to get out with one quick hit.

 

[JohnT]

Uhhhh.....I am not going to argue with you. Congratulations on all of your medals and 25 years of winemaking.

If you choose to not take very common precautions that is your business. To me that is like saying, "Hey, I haven't worn my seat belt for 25 years and never had a problem." So the advice is don't wear seatbelts? Taking precautions is there for the time that you need it not the 25 years that you didn't.

I reject your comparison, and would substitue my own..

It is like saying that over the last 25 years, I never...

1) crammed the inside of my car with styrofoam peanuts,
2) surrounded the outside of my car in bubble wrap,
3) kept my driving speed under 10 mph
4) avoided driving on New Jersey highways

and I am still alive, having never died in an accident. (knock on wood).
quite simply, overkill!

As far as using argon being common. I am not so sure. I know a lot of winemakers (both professional and amateur) and not one of them use argon (or any other inert gas).

 

[JohnT]

What would be ideal is to make enough wine that you don't have any headspace. I love the idea of adding welches or some other grape juice to your kit juice or must pre-ferment so that you make sure you have enough wine to keep those carboys full.

Runningwolf / Wade,

I give up!

johnT.

 

[grapeman]

JohnT and others, we all have our own style and methods for making wine. We all need to respect our rights to individuality. Because you have done your winemaking sucessfully for 25 years without failure is great, but others have done it sucessfully for just as many or more years using other methods. What is important is to figure out what works best for us.

I have saeen some people with great luck never have any problems and their methods are less than ideal. I have also seen a few places that try to make good wine,use less than ideal methods and their wine turns out bad. They then wonder what could have possibly gone wrong. One winery I visited (not commercial-yet) had badly oxidized wine and couldn't figure out why. They use no sulphites and do not fill any of the tanks or carboys full and do not top off with inert gasses. My recommendatio to them was to use the proper amount of free S02, and get them topped up or racked to smaller containers next time they make the wine. A good share of this last years wine is already ruined beyond drinking.

Do whatever it takes for YOU to sucessfully make wine.

 

[winemaker_3352]

I agree with Rich - just because one person has made wine successfully for a long time doesn't mean that is the only way to make wine.

People make wine the way it suits their needs. We need to focus on helping members with the issues that they have - sure recommendations are always great to forum members - some may not be aware of certain items or steps in their wine making process. But that doesn't mean they are wrong...

 

[Wade E]

Winemaking is like the world, there are many ways to get to a place. Its also like a box of chocolates...…bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa

 

[robie]

Yep, this is not a contest, just a place for each of us to express our own opinions... without stepping on the opinions of others.

Let's keep it that way.

 

[Runningwolf]

Originally Posted by Calamity Cellars
What would be ideal is to make enough wine that you don't have any headspace. I love the idea of adding welches or some other grape juice to your kit juice or must pre-ferment so that you make sure you have enough wine to keep those carboys full.

Runningwolf / Wade,

I give up!

johnT.

LMAO glad to see some humor. I agree with the above posters. I asked a winery owner from another state last week how they tested S02. He said they usually don't. I just though OMG. Some of you might remember I bought a bunch of carboys last year of Craigs list because the owner was going to start using plastic one gallon milk jugs. AGGGGGG

Now wih all that said, we haven't heard from Sir's yet. He makes awesome wine with no chemicals or yeast. From what I understan he uses strickly wild yeast. In the fall as Im pouring juice for customers (winemakers) and talk to them I am amazed everytime I hear they do the exact same thing as Sirs. There are only a few, but they are out there. Again if it worke for you and you're happy keep doing it. We'll show you the industry standard and like the old saying goes "there's more then one way to skin a chicken".

 

[Flem]

When this thread first started I thought, Great!---I've been considering getting an argon tank to use in lieu of topping off, and this will give me the answers I need. NOT!!! It has only confused me more. I was hoping for concurrence on the subject but it appears as though there are many varied opinions on the subject. All good opinions I might add. However, does anyone know if argon really works?

 

[robie]

When this thread first started I thought, Great!---I've been considering getting an argon tank to use in lieu of topping off, and this will give me the answers I need. NOT!!! It has only confused me more. I was hoping for concurrence on the subject but it appears as though there are many varied opinions on the subject. All good opinions I might add. However, does anyone know if argon really works?

Yes, it works well. It works best for shorter term protection. If you intend to bulk age for many months or longer, you will be better served to go ahead and properly top off the wine with a like wine.

The confusing stems from many different experiences and opinions. Just consider the evidence and choose your direction!!! If you can't decide, don't buy argon for now.

 

[Runningwolf]

Mike it is no different then discussing which is better carboys or better bottles. It's really a personal preference. Yes argon works and that is why most wineries use either that or nitrogen. You read my example of the Coffee Port and thats a perfect example for using it. Np i do not use it everytime I rack or in every carboy. When I do need it though, I have it!

 

[Runningwolf]

Dang Robie you're quick tonight! LOL

 

[digitaleye]

If you're talking about making wine in carboys why not reduce head space with glass beads/marbles? Using a "like wine" seems fine but if you're a purist it seems like another option. Just sayin

 

[Julie]

If you're talking about making wine in carboys why not reduce head space with glass beads/marbles? Using a "like wine" seems fine but if you're a purist it seems like another option. Just sayin

Yes that is an option and I believe there are members here who use that method, plus there are members who have various sizes of carboys that they rack down into as well.

 

[JohnT]

ABSOFREAKINLUTLY!

Topoff or send to smaller jug is a far cheaper and more viable solution!

 

[Randoneur]

When this thread first started I thought, Great!---I've been considering getting an argon tank to use in lieu of topping off, and this will give me the answers I need. NOT!!! It has only confused me more. I was hoping for concurrence on the subject but it appears as though there are many varied opinions on the subject. All good opinions I might add. However, does anyone know if argon really works?

I don't think I am confused by the posts on this thread, but I'm sure not everyone will agree with my conclusions. Three things I have gotten out of the thread:
It is a convience tool. JohnT's point is well taken. I don't need to do this to make good wine. If I don't have the money to spend or if I simply don't want to use it, I can still make good wine. Proper topping up and SO2 are what is required. Good examples of how to use it were given, so yes it would come in handy at times (like my vacuum pump does).
Several different gasses can be used. Argon, Nitrogen, CO2. Different people use them. So for my original question, Argon 75 CO2 25 will work, although maybe its not as ideal as Argon. I don't have a risk of carbonating the wine with the CO2 that is in it.
Purging with inert gas does work. The gasses suggested are heavier than air, so gently putting a layer on top of the wine will protect it. I can use it short term with no problem. Long term, it may eventually be dispersed, so I need to keep adding purge gas or plug the hole.

Note: Again - Yes it does work. There is no doubt that heavier than air gasses will layer under normal air. Many people have died when entering an industrial tank to do maintenance work where heavy gasses were present in the area. Heavier than air gasses easily push all the oxygen out of a floor installed tank. Just because you can't see it, doen't mean it doesn't flow like water.

 

[robie]

If you're talking about making wine in carboys why not reduce head space with glass beads/marbles? Using a "like wine" seems fine but if you're a purist it seems like another option. Just sayin

This is a common method. Problem is, when you have to fill a space larger than a 750ml bottle or two of wine, it takes a lot of marbles or glass beads to do the job. I started out doing this, but have moved away from it to topping off with a like wine.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I am having very good sucess rate on this new product, I came up with.
no need for gas - marbles - or excessive air in the carboy

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/carboy-air-space-bladder-trial-version-18124/

Thanks steve
http://allinonewinepump.com/

 

[robie]

I got mine in the mail, but haven't tried it yet. Will do this weekend.
I am looking forward to trying it. If it works out, it will make a big difference in the future concerning how I top off.

Thanks, Steve.