Glass carboy has outside residue that won't come off

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

Hay everyone! I bought a few used glass carboys which just looked like they need to be cleaned. Turns out the white streaks on the outside are near impossible to remove.

I've tried PBW, Windex, 409, vinegar, CLR, and steel wool. With 10 minutes of steel wool, I can get it off a small patch. Would take hours to get it all off the 6gal one - not worth the cost savings IMHO. Till this stuff is gone, I can't really tell if the inside is clean.

Any suggestions on what this may be or how to remove? Also, I bought them from an accomplished
winemaker here in Colorado so I don't expect they contained anything particularly weird.

 

[Jim Welch]

Could be dried on homemade PBW or PBW if it was used with hard water, seems like I recall this happening/hearing about it in a brewing forum years ago. It is reportedly VERY difficult to fully remove and that’s what made me recall this.
With that said it is probably ok to use them for bulk aging a wine that is already fermented. Between the acidity, alcohol, and SO2 the wine should be fine.

 

[winechef]

If it's on. outside, leave it,
if it touches wine should be removed. might be hard water stains, there are powders to add and let sit.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Could be dried on homemade PBW or PBW if it was used with hard water, seems like I recall this happening/hearing about it in a brewing forum years ago. It is reportedly VERY difficult to fully remove

* if this is calcium phosphate it will come off in an acid. To do this I would have an acid in a kids pool or horse water tank and let it soak for a week. Being wine makers citric acid should be available.
* it wouldn’t seem worth the effort to remove everything. The photo shows thin streaking.

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

Thank you, everyone, for the input and suggestions. I'm adamant about removing this stuff mainly because it blocks me from seeing if the inside is completely clean. Since my OP, I have tried

GooGone - nope
Muriatic acid (hydrogen chloride) - saw recommendation elsewhere for 10% dilution to clean glass; that did nothing, so I increased it to 20%. Still nothing. Finally, I put it full-strength on a cloth and let it soak on a stain for 10minutes. Nope.

Rice, I don't have kids (and, it's a little late in the season to find a kid pool at Walmart) and I don't have horses with their attendant tanks. However, I may be able to rig something with a large bucket. Would you think that the Muriatic acid would work if it sits for a week or more? I don't have pressing need this week (or next, truth told).

Just to confirm it is on the outside, I hit it with 2000 grit wet/dry emery paper and was able to get a patch crystal clear. Don't really want to sand the entire 6gal carboy. But seems possible that my options are toss it or get an extra-large jar of elbow grease.

—A

 

[ChuckD]

I hit it with 2000 grit wet/dry emery paper and was able to get a patch crystal clear.

Some kind of jewelers rouge or polishing paste and a buffing wheel would be a lot easier.

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

Some kind of jewelers rouge or polishing paste and a buffing wheel would be a lot easier.

That's a pretty good idea. Might resort to that so I don't have to deal with Craigslist

 

[Ohio Bob]

If CLR didn’t get it off, you might try garden grade vinegar. I think you can find 30% concentration, while food grade is 6%. I would not try muriatic acid in case the problem is etched in the glass. The acid might only make it worse. That also might be a clue why the polishing made it appear clear, it’s started to be etched.

Consider an electric car polisher/buffer, get a brand new polishing bonnet, what to use as the polishing liquid... someone else may have to volunteer an idea.

 

[Omabob]

One possibility might be an automotive lense cleaning kit for headlights. They come with a polishing wheel, polishing coumpound, and about 600 grit sandpaper. the polishing wheel can be used in a drill although an actual buffer would work better. Sounds like the glass is etched.

 

[Rice_Guy]

However, I may be able to rig something with a large bucket. Would you think that the Muriatic acid would work if it sits for a week or more? I don't have pressing need this week

I would try a lime cleaner as KLR for water stains on sinks and since this is outside a thickened toilet cleaner with HCl (hydrochloride acid).

Bucket wise many of us wine makers have a primary fermentor that is a 10 gallon pail. Citric acid is what I would use in the lab with food grade equipment for removing calcium.

 

[Newlyretired]

Seeing it is on the outside, you should not need a food grade product.

I would get some Hal (muriatic) acid and add a dab to a spot and see what happens. If it starts to bubble you have the right stuff and can apply to the entire surface. Once the reaction has subsided rinse well and dry

 

[sour_grapes]

Seeing it is on the outside, you should not need a food grade product.

I would get some Hal (muriatic) acid and add a dab to a spot and see what happens. If it starts to bubble you have the right stuff and can apply to the entire surface. Once the reaction has subsided rinse well and dry

See post #5.

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

If CLR didn’t get it off, you might try garden grade vinegar. I think you can find 30% concentration, while food grade is 6%. I would not try muriatic acid in case the problem is etched in the glass. The acid might only make it worse. That also might be a clue why the polishing made it appear clear, it’s started to be etched.

Consider an electric car polisher/buffer, get a brand new polishing bonnet, what to use as the polishing liquid... someone else may have to volunteer an idea.

Hay Bob. So Amazon has horticultural vinegar at 75% for a reasonable price. Use that full-strength?

How long should the solution stay on to be effective?

 

[Ohio Bob]

Hay Bob. So Amazon has horticultural vinegar at 75% for a reasonable price. Use that full-strength?

How long should the solution stay on to be effective?

We’re still not sure what we’re dealing with so I would use full strength on a paper towel and scrub it in to see if anything comes off. If nothing comes off then I would lean towards the glass being etched.

 

[Rice_Guy]

How long should the solution stay on to be effective?

As with all reactions, one only knows how long after the fact. Likewise one only sees after the fact if etching and less clarity developed. We as a culture seem to be short when it comes to patience

by the way Ajax, welcome to WMT

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

As with all reactions, one only knows how long after the fact. Likewise one only sees after the fact if etching and less clarity developed. We as a culture seem to be short when it comes to patience

by the way Ajax, welcome to WMT

Thanks, Rice! Been learning how to make drinkable wine from my backyard grapevine for a LONNNNNNNGGG time. Still learning Glad to find a good forum

—A

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

So, here's an update. Home Depot was carrying 30% Vinegar the other day, so I sprung for a gallon ($20 *sheesh*).

Put on paper towel and rubbed in, but no joy.

Put soaked paper towel over an ugly spot and letting it sit for a while.

Update will follow

—A

 

[Rocky]

Here are a couple of ideas, just spit balling.

1. Have you tried a Brillo or SOS pad? If not, I would do so.
2. A trick my Bride uses for baked on stains on Ceramic is to fill the pan with water and add a fabric softener dryer sheet. I have no idea of how or why this works, but we have cleaned 30-40 year old ceramic baking dishes with baked on stains and they look like new. I realize glass and ceramic are not the same thing but they are similar. Try immersing the carboys in a tub or bucket, weight it down somehow and add a dryer sheet or two. Let it stand for about 8 hours, rinse and see what happens.

Good luck.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Acid might etch the glass more. It can also weaken the glass if etched.
Try the polish or even toothpaste.

 

[AjaxOfTheRockies]

Rocky, that's good stuff to know. THX!

Well, SUCCESS finally! It took 30% Vinegar from Home Depot and Scotch-Brite Advanced scrubber pad. Not too much elbow grease, just moderate pressure and circular scrubbing for about 10-20 seconds on each 'square' in the glass. Wipe with dry paper towel and hit a second time with the scrubber/vinegar.

Here's Before:

After:

Here's the scrub pad I used:

YAY!

Thanks, everybody!

—A