Flowers of wine

[DAB]

Okay guys and gals, I've got a BIG problem. My one-year-old Zin was recently put into my brand new 13.2 gallon oak barrel on October 24th. At the time it had 70ppm SO2. I've checked the fluid levels regularly and topped it off a several times. This AM I checked it again and discovered the dreaded flowers of wine floating around on the top. I checked the SO2 levels and found them to be 25-30 range (quite a precipitous drop from only one month ago). So, I dosed it 4 grams of
Potassium Metabisulfite, striving for a total of about 70-80ppm SO2 and topped it off. I will of course check it over the next few days.

Last December I had this same problem with this same batch of wine but thought I had completely eradicated it--apparently not.

So, the question remains...do I throw out the entire 13.2 gallons? Did I ruin my brand new barrel by infecting it with Candida Vini? Is there any hope for this wine whatsoever?

Post script: I have an additional three gallons of this same wine in a carboy that looks to be fine.

Very frustrating to be sure!

 

[salcoco]

check your ph to insure the SO2 dose you are supplying is correct. did you do taste test? the flowers of wine is strictly a surface bacteria and requires air to grow. is barrel not air tight?

 

[DAB]

PH as of October 24th was 3.97. Barrel is not leaking any wine, so I have every reason to believe it's air tight, although the bung, which doesn't fit precisely, isn't. No, did not taste it.

 

[NorCal]

Dealing with 4.0 wine is tough, having a small barrel makes that more difficult. If it were my wine I would rack and put it in glass until it’s time to bottle. If that’s not an option, top every 2-3 weeks. Assuming the wine isn’t damaged (still tastes good) I would look to bottle early as well.

 

[salcoco]

look up ph versus so2 ppm I think 50ppm is not enough for a 4.0 ph. agree with @NorCal put it in glass and bottle sooner than later. what more tannin use cubes.

 

[DAB]

Okay, sounds like bottling it now is the way to go. Will this Flowers of wine show up in the bottles? What about the barrel? I have suffer sticks to burn...or what about filling it up with Star-San/water combination to disinfect it? Or is the barrel trash?

 

[NorCal]

Okay, sounds like bottling it now is the way to go. Will this Flowers of wine show up in the bottles? What about the barrel? I have suffer sticks to burn...or what about filling it up with Star-San/water combination to disinfect it? Or is the barrel trash?

I recently salvaged 30 gallons of wine that was pretty badly infected with flowers of wine (not mine). I could taste the impact of the infection, especially on the back end, where it was most likely the acetic acid I was tasting. We were able to mask the off taste by heavily blending with Petite Sirah, which in the end tasted pretty good. We'll see if it holds up. It should as this yeast needs oxygen to multiply.

Since Flower of Wine is a yeast, I would treat the containers and anything else that came it contact with it like you would to treat spoilage yeasts. I am not a fan of using chlorine in the winery, but I know others do. If I had it, I would take a less aggressive approach with StarSan and or SO2 solution and be sure to keep the now emptied barrel full of properly aciduated water with a high level of SO2...and keep it full.

 

[DAB]

What about after I empty the barrel, lighting a couple of Sulfur Sticks and letting the barrel sit for a month or so...would that kill the Candida Vini? Or, should I fill the barrel up with StarSan/SO2 solution?

 

[NorCal]

What about after I empty the barrel, lighting a couple of Sulfur Sticks and letting the barrel sit for a month or so...would that kill the Candida Vini? Or, should I fill the barrel up with StarSan/SO2 solution?

I’ve used sulfur sticks, not a fan. You can’t drop any ashes and I don’t have a way to measure if there is enough or too much sulfur. Keep it topped at the right pH and SO2 level is what I’d do. The down side is you are consuming the oak useful life.

 

[berrycrush]

... so what does Flowers-of-Wine infected wine taste like? in terms of wine faults terminology?

 

[mainshipfred]

What about after I empty the barrel, lighting a couple of Sulfur Sticks and letting the barrel sit for a month or so...would that kill the Candida Vini? Or, should I fill the barrel up with StarSan/SO2 solution?

The thing about a sulfur stick is it will only burn until until it eliminates the O2 then it will extinguish itself so there is only so much sulfur you can put in a barrel. I've heard or read it should be done every 2 weeks.

 

[Ajmassa]

... so what does Flowers-of-Wine infected wine taste like? in terms of wine faults terminology?

You’ll know. That surface bacteria grows. The wine color gets oxidized and browns. And the wine takes on an unmistakable bitter/tart odor & taste. Very sharp. Not pleasant. Happened to me once. Tried for the life of me to salvage the wine.
Racked it. Hit with sulphites. Filtered it. Then bentonite. Added some finishing tannins to try and hide it and then bottled. Ultimately I ended up dumping.

 

[NorCal]

... so what does Flowers-of-Wine infected wine taste like? in terms of wine faults terminology?

The byproduct of a bad infection is acetic acid, think a sharp vinegar. In an infected wine, for me it is represented as a sour, mouth watering taste, usually on the back end of the taste.

 

[user 36973]

I could taste the impact of the infection, especially on the back end, where it was most likely the acetic acid I was tasting.

Get the barrel out of your wine storage area now and turn it into a flower pot. There is no, I repeat NO, salvaging of an infected barrel. Go buy another new AO for $300, it is less a cost than the cost of the grapes you'll use to fill it.

 

[NorCal]

Get the barrel out of your wine storage area now and turn it into a flower pot. There is no, I repeat NO, salvaging of an infected barrel. Go buy another new AO for $300, it is less a cost than the cost of the grapes you'll use to fill it.

Ah, good advice @jgmillr1 , I did not know that.

 

[franc1969]

There is no, I repeat NO, salvaging of an infected barrel

I am new to barrel thoughts, but assumed an infected barrel was no longer viable. Question though- if you disassembled, planed and toasted the parts, would they be infected? Just wondering about re-use of old barrels as staves or cubes, if I was to come across one to try. I am in economy mode, forever. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to get a new barrel, but might find parts.

 

[cmason1957]

I am new to barrel thoughts, but assumed an infected barrel was no longer viable. Question though- if you disassembled, planed and toasted the parts, would they be infected? Just wondering about re-use of old barrels as staves or cubes, if I was to come across one to try. I am in economy mode, forever. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to get a new barrel, but might find parts.

I wouldn't try this, I would be paranoid that some of the infection was embedded into the woods, no matter what I did.

 

[user 36973]

I wouldn't try this, I would be paranoid that some of the infection was embedded into the woods, no matter what I did.

This is precisely why it is essentially impossible to sanitize a barrel. Too many hiding places for the bacteria to get into and not be killed or removed. Theoretically it should be possible to sanitize the barrel if the entire volume of the wood could be brought up over 190'F for a sufficient period of time. So if someone has access to a large industrial autoclave, then it may be do-able. You'd still need to steam and clean out the residue from inside the barrel. But with the tools most of us have available, it is not likely that the wood can be penetrated enough to kill off the infection.