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Pulione

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Can anyone advise if the over the counter Replaceable Water Filters are suitable for the filtration of Wine. The availablitity of a suitable Micron range ( 1 - 5 ) is readily available in the small 10 inch under the coutrer filter casing and media.
My major concern is the effect of a column type of filter would have on the end result of the wine, (taste etc.) rathert than the plate type of filter media that is availalbe by the many outlets.
The reason for the question - rather than just use the Plate type filter system is simple - I do not trust a plate filter system to be truly leak proof, it is almost impossible to insure a leak proof assembly.
Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
 

GreginND

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The counter water filters likely are charcoal based. You do not want to filter your wine through charcoal. Instead, you can get a "whole house filter" cartridge and filters pretty inexpensively. Here is a long thread on the topic. It might be useful to read through this for some ideas and sources. Please feel free to ask more questions. There are many here who have used these successfully.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tips-and-tricks-to-using-a-whole-house-filter.37737/
 

Pulione

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The counter water filters likely are charcoal based. You do not want to filter your wine through charcoal. Instead, you can get a "whole house filter" cartridge and filters pretty inexpensively. Here is a long thread on the topic. It might be useful to read through this for some ideas and sources. Please feel free to ask more questions. There are many here who have used these successfully.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tips-and-tricks-to-using-a-whole-house-filter.37737/
Thank you - appreciated.
I read most of the conversations in the link you provided, my mistake, I should have done a search first before starting another thread - (slow learner).
My question I think has been answered, that is the use of the standard water filter cartridge can be used without any negative results, proper micron sizing taken into consideration.
The next question I have is probably considered dumb - why use a negative system (vacuum pump) over a positive pressure system, Is it because you cannot get the pressure out of the small pump to overcome the pressure drop of the filter? If this is the reason, the filter media supplier should be able to provide the (flow + pd) data you need to select the pump. With a small flow, the head on the pump should not be that great.
Thanks again for the help.d
 

stickman

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The main reason for using a vacuum pump is convenience as many home wine makers already own one. They can be used for many other operations including racking, transferring, degassing, and bottling, as well as during filtration. There is no reason you cant use a regular pump. I use a regular pump, because I have tanks that can't handle vacuum.
 

Pulione

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The main reason for using a vacuum pump is convenience as many home wine makers already own one. They can be used for many other operations including racking, transferring, degassing, and bottling, as well as during filtration. There is no reason you cant use a regular pump. I use a regular pump, because I have tanks that can't handle vacuum.
Thank you-
What model of pump are you using if you don't mind me asking - I am looking for a "food grade" small centrifugal, preferably with a 316 stainless impellar, so far no luck.
This is fun, I am looking forward to building a transfer/filtration system, Ozonated water systems is my background, if I can only transfer or apply the past knowledge to Wine, I will be OK with a lot of help.
Have a good one - take care!
 

stickman

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I don't have any centrifugal pumps for wine. If you are set on centrifugal then look up Chugger pump.

I have two positive displacement type pumps, one is a stainless Procon rotary vane that's part of my filter setup, and the other is a Shurflo diaphragm type that I use for transferring and racking. I like these types of pumps, because they can pull with a dry suction, so they don't need to be primed.They can also develop higher pressure than most small centrifugal pumps and with much less shear on the liquid. A centrifugal pump can more easily deliver higher flow, if that's what is needed, but usually at lower pressure, given the small pumps typically used for brewing.

Shurflow Model
2088-594-154, MPU 115V 45 SW PSS 3.0R 3.0G 1MZW S, 115VAC , 45 PSI , 3.3 GPM

Procon Model 115B190F31BA, 3.5gpm, stainless carbonator pump
 

pillswoj

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The lower pressure on a centrifugal pump could be an issue pushing it through a filter.
 

Pulione

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The lower pressure on a centrifugal pump could be an issue pushing it through a filter.
Thank you for your time and reply, it is appreciated.
By looking at Big Blue filters, it appears (I will confirm) that 3 psi
The lower pressure on a centrifugal pump could be an issue pushing it through a filter.
Thank you for both your time and reply, it is appreciated.
In looking at the 10" Big Blue in line filter with a 5 micron cartridge, it appears that a minimum of 3 psi will be required from the pump. I have contacted Jabsco - Flow Jet - as we have a couple of their pumps in stock, but the heads are Macerators - (food waste disposal). I want to see if I can convert them to "food safe" - both models are capable as far as head is concerned, I will however check your suggestions.
I have a couple of Vane Axial pumps in 316 - they are just too large for what I am looking for, unless I use a rheostat for capacity reduction.
This selection is interesting, if you don,t mind, I will post what is decided for your comments.
Thanks again.
 

Arne

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One thing you might want to keep in mind with a pump is how do you clean it after using? Don't want to leave anything in there for nasties to grow on. Arne.
 

Pulione

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One thing you might want to keep in mind with a pump is how do you clean it after using? Don't want to leave anything in there for nasties to grow on. Arne.
Simple to Flush then run thru the sanatizing solution when finished with the wine, then re-flush with water. It is one of the reasons that I like 316, it is really impervious to most liquids and acids.
Thanks loads.
 

Pulione

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Simple to Flush then run thru the sanatizing solution when finished with the wine, then re-flush with water. It is one of the reasons that I like 316, it is really impervious to most liquids and acids.
Thanks loads.
Just a update:
After searching and looking at what is available, a reasonalbe food safe centrifugal pump is just not available, and I found I could not replace the heads on eith of the 2 pumps that we have in stock to make sure we had a food safe product, based on your input, I decided that the simplest and most pratical thing to do, was to build a vacuum system.
All parts are ordered with the exception of the "foam/vacuum" carboy. Hopefully we will have this lined up before the weekend.
Thanks a million for the help, really appreciated.
You take care.
 

Pulione

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Just a update:
After searching and looking at what is available, a reasonalbe food safe centrifugal pump is just not available, and I found I could not replace the heads on eith of the 2 pumps that we have in stock to make sure we had a food safe product, based on your input, I decided that the simplest and most pratical thing to do, was to build a vacuum system.
All parts are ordered with the exception of the "foam/vacuum" carboy. Hopefully we will have this lined up before the weekend.
Thanks a million for the help, really appreciated.
You take care.
Finally got around to setting up the Vacuum system, all went well with the exception of the Big Blue 10 filter, getting the air out of that system is really tough. After testing all the connections and replaceing the BB filter, with a 10" single cartridge unit, I narrowed down the air inlet to the air remaining in the filter shell. It just acts like a buffer, every time you try to bleed it ( no relief valve on the filter body ) it will flow for about 5 mins then fills back up again, You can invert the body and get some relief.
I siliconed all of the joinst and O ring, still the same, doesn't make sense.
Attached a air compressor to check again for leaks, all seems tight, no sign of water anywhere.
Stumped
Any and all ideas welcome.
Thanks loads.
 

vacuumpumpman

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Finally got around to setting up the Vacuum system, all went well with the exception of the Big Blue 10 filter, getting the air out of that system is really tough. After testing all the connections and replaceing the BB filter, with a 10" single cartridge unit, I narrowed down the air inlet to the air remaining in the filter shell. It just acts like a buffer, every time you try to bleed it ( no relief valve on the filter body ) it will flow for about 5 mins then fills back up again, You can invert the body and get some relief.
I siliconed all of the joinst and O ring, still the same, doesn't make sense.
Attached a air compressor to check again for leaks, all seems tight, no sign of water anywhere.
Stumped
Any and all ideas welcome.
Thanks loads.

The pressure relief is most likely the cause - it gets pulled down when vacuum is applied. Also the filter will pull out ant excess CO2 from your wine thru the filter element acting as an orifice under vacuum

This is the filter set up I recommend - http://www.allinonewinepump.com/product/wine-filter-setup/
 

Pulione

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The pressure relief is most likely the cause - it gets pulled down when vacuum is applied. Also the filter will pull out ant excess CO2 from your wine thru the filter element acting as an orifice under vacuum

This is the filter set up I recommend - http://www.allinonewinepump.com/product/wine-filter-setup/
Thank you for the reply - I do not have a pressure relief in the system, I thought of tapping in a check valve in the top of the filter casing, as I am sure that is where the problem lies. You would have a full volume of air in the filter at startup but I assumed that all air would be displaced by the liquid transfer (water in this test case) but that is not happening. Frustrating.in as much as the single barrel small filter casing does not have this problem.
I will try a water trap and see what happens,
Take care.
 

Pulione

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Thank you for the reply - I do not have a pressure relief in the system, I thought of tapping in a check valve in the top of the filter casing, as I am sure that is where the problem lies. You would have a full volume of air in the filter at startup but I assumed that all air would be displaced by the liquid transfer (water in this test case) but that is not happening. Frustrating.in as much as the single barrel small filter casing does not have this problem.
I will try a water trap and see what happens,
Take care.
All is well this morning - re piped the system, installed a simple trap for initial purge, bled the system, quite happly with the results.
Thanks again for the interest and replies, appreciated.
 

vacuumpumpman

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All is well this morning - re piped the system, installed a simple trap for initial purge, bled the system, quite happly with the results.
Thanks again for the interest and replies, appreciated.

Pictures by chance ??

I find that the air leaves alot better if the filter is not wet - otherwise the wine will be pulled thru the filter element prior to filling up the Housing. The CO2 will also being released in the housing can be an issue also
 

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