Can I get more body & flavor?

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

Jbuck

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
My first batch was elderberry using Vintner's Harvest base, while I was quite pleased I would like more body and flavor. Today I stopped by the supply store and picked up two 96 oz. cans of Vineters peach base, my question is. If I use both cans in a five gal. batch will it increase the flavor & body? Also the recipe indicates how much acid blend, yeast nutrient, tannin and pectic enzyme to use for a five gallon batch with one 96 oz can would it remain the same if I use both cans? oh, and amount of sugar also? I live in a rural area and the closest supply store is 45 miles away, with the cost of gas added to the product price I would rather not make another trip due to a mistake on my part. Today is my Birthday so am going to try to start a Bday batch. Thanks so much.
 

ckassotis

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
307
Reaction score
9
The easy answer to your question would be yes, using an additional can of concentrate will most definitely help with the flavor and the body.

However, from there it gets complicated. I would say that you can now no longer follow the acid/sugar directions, though the rest should stay similar. I'd probably double the pectic enzyme as well.

The concentrate is going to contain some more acid as well as a decent bit more sugar, so test the pH and/or total acidity, and add the sugar in steps, testing the S.G. in between instead of adding all at once. That way you don't end up with a crazy S.G. that you can't start fermentation on.
 

Julie

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
12,055
Reaction score
1,771
Jbuck,

take an acid test to see how much acid you need to use, nutrient is usually 1 tsp per gallon, 1/4 tsp of tannin for the batch, tablespoon of pectic enzyme and enough sugar to bring your sg to 1.080 there abouts. Never just add the amount of sugar that is called for in a recipe, always use your hydrometer

Hope this helps and please let us know how this goes and if you have anymore questions, please post up
 

Jbuck

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Jbuck,

take an acid test to see how much acid you need to use,


OK, Guess I am going to have to buy more equipment, don't have anything to test for acid what do I need?
 

Julie

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
12,055
Reaction score
1,771
You can get a titration kit, it will cost you about $10 that will do the trick for you and it is very simple to you use.
 

dangerdave

Chief Bottlewasher
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
2,728
Reaction score
866
Jbuck, hey!

I've got both the peach and the elderberry aging in my cellar as we post. I enjoyed working with the Vinter's Harvest bases, and plan to make more. I used twice the peaches and made a six gallon batch. I used one 96oz VH peach base and two 48oz cans of peaches from Sam's Club. As ckassotis suggested above, I bumped up the pectic enzyme to deal with all that peachiness. Peaches are notorious for enzyme haze. I added an oz of natural mango extract during clearing to bump up the fruit flavor. It is currently clearing wonderfully and looks absolutely beautiful---like liquid sunshine! I'll get a picture for you. I'm very proud of that one.

With the elderberry base, I added an f-pack stuffed with local concord grapes, and made a six gallon batch. I kept the rest of the ingredients the same as the label recipe (per five gallon batch). My step son (who loves red wine) say this may be my best yet. It has a nice fruity nose---from the fragrent concord grapes---and leaves a delightful aftertaste with very little of the dryness associated with red wines. It is very smooth.

Happy Birthday!!! You should always make wine on your birthday!

They are both three months old and aging in their carboys. Don't be affraid. Experiment. It is worth it!
 
Last edited:

koda_ky

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
147
Reaction score
0
I have a Vintner's Harvest peach going and I just made it a 3 gallon and added 3 15oz cans of peaches from walmart, the last taste was very good had a good peach flavor.
 

Kemo

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
67
Reaction score
1
As a GENERAL rule, more fruit will equal more flavor. However as some of the others have said it gets more complicated in terms of starting the fermentation, balancing the sugar and acid. Wines like blueberries some people have trouble because it has natural preservatives in it, however if you make a yeast starter with a strong super yeast like 1118 you should be good. I've made three batches of pure blueberry juice with no problems.

The acid is the trickiest. Invest in a decent PH meter, you can measure not only PH but TA as well, I got mine for 35 off of ebay. It will give u much more accuracy. Good luck and post some pics of your progress!
 

Chessdunk

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
61
Reaction score
4
How many times I have read this. .. And yet today I mucked it up. Added 2kgs sugar to the 6ltrs orange wine and my sg was over 1.2 had to run to get more oranges and water to get the sg to 1.09... What was a 6 ltrs wine is now 16 and my banana and raisins are all skewed. Can't add more of those Thanks to the sugar already in the must. Added 750 grms raisins and 1.4kg of banana that I simmered and used the liquid. Simmered for 30 min without skin..

Will I have enough body ING the orange wine? What else could I do?
 

Stressbaby

Just a Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
832
Hi Chessdunk,

You could still add more bananas. I would just make sure they are very ripe, toss them into the primary with the other stuff. I might also use raisins, or possibly white grape concentrate if I could find it (very hard to find here atm). A little more water, like 8-16 ounces, may be needed. Or you could just leave it and see how it comes out, you might be fine.

I have a citrus wine going right now, 1 gallon, made with 12oz white grape concentrate and no bananas.

PS: I would strongly consider dropping some thinly peeled rind into the carboy after fermentation is complete. A lot of the "orange" can blow off during fermentation and the rind will add some of that back, the extraction aided by the alcohol in the wine. Leave it 2-4 weeks. Grapefruit is my favorite citrus for this trick.
 

Arne

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
5,058
Reaction score
1,201
Location
central Nebraska
Make sure you keep good notes on this. Next thing you will wind up with is the best wine I ever made. Wonder how I did it. Been there done that, Arne.
 

Chessdunk

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
61
Reaction score
4
Stressbaby... It was only today that I was reading all your posts about Orange wine! Thanks a ton for your inputs.

I have like another half a kg of frozen banana in the ready. But the trouble is my starting sg was 1.08 on day 1 and day 2 the sg is 1.09!!

My SG figures below...

Day Actual SG Brix ABV
Day 0 1.080 19.8 11.3
Day 1 1.090 22 12.9

Looks like this is the result of the 750 grams of raisins and 1.4kg bananas already in the must. The fermentation is definitely on, I could taste the orange flavor in the must. On day 1 the Banana flavor was pronounced but now the orange stands out and I could feel the acidity and the alcohol bite. How do I calculate the SG now :? Total volume of the must is 11.5 ltrs

The must is pretty frothy and there was definitely enough fermentation happening. What could be going on??

I started this wine with the intention of doing a fruity wine... but looks like that might change now. I am planning on adding one orange rind when I rack and do a gradual addition from there.

Here is my recipe.

Oranges 31
Sugar 2kg
Bananas 1.4kg peeled simmered and drained the juice into the must
Raisins 750kg
Lemon 1tsp
Tea strong 1 cup
Papaya Peal 1 small full
Wheat Malt 200gms steeped at 55 to 60 c and 70 to 76 c
Yeast RC 212 in the starter solution for 36 hours





Hi Chessdunk,

You could still add more bananas. I would just make sure they are very ripe, toss them into the primary with the other stuff. I might also use raisins, or possibly white grape concentrate if I could find it (very hard to find here atm). A little more water, like 8-16 ounces, may be needed. Or you could just leave it and see how it comes out, you might be fine.

I have a citrus wine going right now, 1 gallon, made with 12oz white grape concentrate and no bananas.

PS: I would strongly consider dropping some thinly peeled rind into the carboy after fermentation is complete. A lot of the "orange" can blow off during fermentation and the rind will add some of that back, the extraction aided by the alcohol in the wine. Leave it 2-4 weeks. Grapefruit is my favorite citrus for this trick.
 
Last edited:

Chessdunk

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
61
Reaction score
4
Make sure you keep good notes on this. Next thing you will wind up with is the best wine I ever made. Wonder how I did it. Been there done that, Arne.
So true Arne... saving this in an excel sheet and almost had a panic attack when Excel conked on me!! Took some time to recover, but thank God the file is intact :h
 

Stressbaby

Just a Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
832
Chessdunk,

You won't really know your ABV until your fermentation is done. Then look at the drop in SG. I generally use an online ABV calculator like this.

Note that in the time between day 1 and day 2, some fermentation occurred and so functionally your starting gravity might have been a little higher than 1.090.
 
Top