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Campden / Pectic / Yeast schedule

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LawMonkey

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What's the proper schedule on which to add these things? Terry Garey's Joy of Home Winemaking generally says pectic twelve hours after campden, and yeast 24 hours after pectic. In at least one recipe, though, she says yeast twelve hours after pectic.

The bottle of pectic enzyme itself says to add one hour before pitching the yeast.

Coming from brewing beer, it seems weird to me to have unfermented stuff sitting around without yeast in it for so long! What's the proper time to do all this stuff?
 

Sacalait

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I've heard and read similar advice, however I add all ingredients except the yeast from the get go and pitch the yeast 24hrs later. This works for me.

The reason for waiting to pitch the yeast is to allow the K-meta (camden) the time to inhibit the growth of any wild yeast present in the must. Once the wine yeast is incorporated it will domimate.
 

LawMonkey

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From the sound of that, the key is to wait 24 hours after the sulfite, so I'll go ahead and pitch this evening before bed.

Thanks! :)
 

Mrsriggle

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gimmpy, my guru, suggests using the campden tablets for at least 24 hours until the sulphur smell dissipates, then adding all the other ingredients, though we sugar the batch in increments, then adding the yeast.
 

lockwood1956

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Yup 24 hours later for me too...adding pectin at the same time as campden ...gives the pectin extra time to do its thing, as it isnt inhibited by campden.

regards
Bob
 

smurfe

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Another important reason to wait the 24 hours is to allow the must to reach room temperature particularly if you dumped hot or boiling water over fruit to extract flavor and color. Allowing to reach room temps assure the elevated temps won't kill the yeast.
 

Luc

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Last week (yes the whole week in the evenings) I have been crushing and pressing (by hand, no mechanical tools available, although I am building some) about 180 kilo prunes which a friendly farmer generously GAVE to me.

So the question posed here is right at hand for me.

First I crush the fruit. Then you need to do 2 things.

You want to inhibit wild yeast and you want to get as much juice as possible.
So to get the juice you add directly pecto enzyme and to inhibit wild yeast you also add sulphite.
Then let the pecto enzyme do its job. The timeline is dependable on temperature.

You will have to do the temp calculations from C to F yourself
At 15-20 degrees Celsius Pecto enzymes need 20 hours to do the job
At 30 degrees they need about 5 to 6 hours
And at 40 degrees they need 3 to 4 hours.

So in a hot summer (which is not the case over here) you will need a few hours.
In a mild summer (like now) you will need about 20 hours.
This is the reason that they tell you to add yeast afther 24 hours.
In most countries temperatures will be around 15 to 20 degrees in autumn.

Now afther this time (be it 4 hours or 6 or whatever) you will add the yeast starter.
If you will wait longer the sulphite will have lost a lot of its function and any spoilage bacteria or fungi can take over again.

Now remember that our cultivated yeasts are sulphite tolerant.
So the time to add the yeast starter is not critical.
But pecto enzymes will not work properly in an environment where there is alcohol present.
So this is the reason to wait before adding the yeast starter.

But the yeast starter is not temperature tolerant. So if you have poured boiling water
over the fruit and temp is down to 40 degrees C add the sulphite and pecto enzyme.
After the waiting period the must will also have cooled down to a temperature range
in the 20's that the yeast can tolerate.

This is how it all fits together.

So the drill is:
First sulphite and pecto enzymes and then afther the enzymes have done their job you will add the yeast.

Hope this helps

Luc
 
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weltercat

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Nice post Luc

I have a couple questions about it.

You said "You want to inhibit wild yeast and you want to get as much juice as possible."

What does the pectic enzyme do besides remove the pectin in fruit? Does it somehow help to get the juice out of the fruit?

Also, can I somewhat cook the fruit with the water sugar mix just below the boiling point to pasteurize it? I would think that this would remove any wild yeast and kill any bacteria? Wouldn't this also aid in extracting the juice from the pulp? Will this change the taste if I heat the must to pasteurization temperatures?

I am going to start some black berry wine as soon as the berries get ripe here and I don't plan on using any campden and a minimum amount of pectic enzyme. Am I all wet here?
 

Luc

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Nice post Luc

I have a couple questions about it.

You said "You want to inhibit wild yeast and you want to get as much juice as possible."

What does the pectic enzyme do besides remove the pectin in fruit? Does it somehow help to get the juice out of the fruit?

Also, can I somewhat cook the fruit with the water sugar mix just below the boiling point to pasteurize it? I would think that this would remove any wild yeast and kill any bacteria? Wouldn't this also aid in extracting the juice from the pulp? Will this change the taste if I heat the must to pasteurization temperatures?

I am going to start some black berry wine as soon as the berries get ripe here and I don't plan on using any campden and a minimum amount of pectic enzyme. Am I all wet here?
Weltercat you are right on the nose by stating that Pectic Enzyme gets more juice out of the fruit. It breaks down cells so the fluids in the cells become available. And that is just what we want.

Cooking is generally not recommended. By cooking 2 things occur.
First you do the same as with making jam: heating the fruit and the fruit becomes gelly like which we are trying to avoid. The must will become more vast as fluid and therefore you will need even more pectic enzyme.
Secondly cooking fruit gives the fruit a cooked flavor.
So do yourself a favor and do not cook it.
Besides that the sulphites will protect the must.

Hope this answers your questions.

Luc
 
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