Bulk aging and Clarifying. When do you do it?

[ibglowin]

I am confused.

If you bulk age in a Carboy what is the consensus of when to add the Clarifying agents? I have been adding as per the instructions but now I am seeing post where people are not adding them until 10 days before bottling.

What are the pros and cons here?

 

[Dean]

I add the clarifiers when the wine is done fermenting. After that, I wait a period of time, usually between 3 and 4 months, then rack off the sediment to a clean carboy and continue to bulk age.

I filter most of my wines, so I filter 1 week before I bottle. Most of my reds bulk age for 12 to 18 months, and sometimes longer.

 

[ibglowin]

Thats was sorta my plan when I started this process, then I started reading a few post that were saying when the clarifiers are added your wine is sorta "frozen" in time and all chemical rXn is halted. You might as well bottle because bulk aging is pointless after the addition of the clarifiers.

Thus my confusion here

 

[JimCook]

When I've bulked aged, I don't add clarifying agents. Waldo once sang, "Time, time, time" to me and it has stuck. Let the wine sit on everything it has in there without applying anything that would strip potentially positive elements out. I think you'll be surprised at how clear the wine gets. Of course, the end choice is up to you. I have a large stack of clarifiers that came with kits that are currently sitting in case I all of a sudden get the urge to clarify some wine - so far, I don't see that happening unless need dictates.


- Jim

 

[Bartman]

I don't use the clarifying agents either. The last bottle filled usually ends up with some sediment because I never want to dump the last 1/2 cup or so of juice/wine at racking time. Nevertheless, I have not been disappointed that the wine was cloudy, except that last bottle (which usually settles out on its own anyway).

Unlike Jim, I usually pitch the siligel/liquigel/isinglass in the trash with a shrug.

Bart

 

[2dmoore]

Just peeked into your cellar Jim Cook. Were those plastic 3 gallon water bottles you are using?

 

[JimCook]

2dmoore,


I use 3-gallon Better Bottles for smaller batches, although they are not good for longer term storage and lose SO2 faster than glass.


- Jim

 

[Dean]

There is no such thing as a wine "frozen in time". Clarifiers knock total dissolved solids out of the wine. They do this by charging the particles to a certain polarity, which attracts particles of opposite charges. They bunch up until they are big enough to fall out of solution.

There are certain color molecules that can be pulled out of solution by too heavy a fining agent. It should be noted that these colors *would* have fallen out given sufficient aging anyways! You can always see this result in a well aged Bordeaux. Color *always* falls out.

However, after clarifiers, a wine never stops changing chemically! In reds, short chain tannins combine to form long chain, silky tannins. In whites, acids fall out, or combine with other bioflavinoids to soften the wine. All that is function of AGE and not clarifiers. It is true that with egg white fining you can strip a lot of the short chain tannins out and make your red wine not quite as punchy and robust, but that is from over-fining and not from fining alone.

Aging, and more importantly bulk aging makes your wine age slower so those short chain tannins have a change to form long chain tannins. This is done by minimizing the amount of temperature changes a wine has to go through. Of course, if you have a wine cave, that is naturally at 53F with 78% relative humidity, you can just bottle like the french with caves do. However, if you are like the rest of the world....

I challenge people to provide good hard *documented* facts about clarifiers and their affect on wine. Most of the myths are just that. It's too bad this would not be good fodder for Mythbusters, because they could do 1/2 a season on wine myths!

 

[vcasey]

I use the same procedure as Dean does. Well pretty close anyway, keep in mind I am a lazy wine/mead maker

! Sometimes I think we tend to over analyze our procedures and gosh knows the kits directions can be a bit vague (but the does let your personal creativity have a chance to play). Just find whatever works for you and thats the best method - for you.
By the way I am testing the long term storage of some Better Bottles. Obviously this will be a long and I am using some rather high gravity (high alcohol) meads. But I am also going to be extending the testing to include the storage of the wine made from the grapes I'll be getting in October. Still it will be a long while to determine if they are will work for long term storage.
Along that line - What is the longest time you have left a wine or mead in the fermenter? The longest time you have left it in carboy (glass and Better Bottle)? For me 2 months in the fermenter and 18 months in a glass carboy (and counting).
VC

 

[2dmoore]

2dmoore,


I use 3-gallon Better Bottles for smaller batches, although they are not good for longer term storage and lose SO2 faster than glass.


- Jim

I have 5 gallons of strawberry aging in a plastic water bottle and have been apprehensive about its quality. It makes me feel better seeing a master using bottles also.

 

[ibglowin]

Dean,

Thank you for that excellent post. It makes much more sense now and sets this newbie's mind at ease that I am not wasting time letting it bulk age in this fashion.

You have made we wonder about what is out there on the "internets" behind the chemistry of clarifiers.

I will start googling this and report back on my findings.

 

[Tom]

2dmoore,


I use 3-gallon Better Bottles for smaller batches, although they are not good for longer term storage and lose SO2 faster than glass.


- Jim

I have 5 gallons of strawberry aging in a plastic water bottle and have been apprehensive about its quality. It makes me feel better seeing a master using bottles also.

Note: Jim is not using a regular water bottle. A better bottle is one that will not let any oxygen in.

 

[Dean]

I'm glad I was able assist in some way. You remind me a lof of well...me, when I first started. I was so hungry for knowledge, that I just went along with everything. I fussed abnormally over my wine, made a few mistakes that caused more than a few gallons to go down the drain. I think the worst of it all, was that I had a bad retailer (George would know a lot about this, as he's a very good one that I'm sure takes a lot of business from bad ones!) who had such bad ideas and practices that caused me to start to REALLY research the chemistry and processes of wine.

I think the best thing a person could do, is if you have a local winery, go volunteer there. Sign up now as it is harvest time! See how wine is made commercially, and ask the head winemaker lot of questions. They really like it when someone shows an interest in what they do, and not just the final product.

 

[Wade E]

Dean, do you let the wine sit on the fining agents for 3 -4 months? I have never gone that long and usually a month is the longest for me due to laziness and no time but no less then 2 weeks as to let them settle hard for easier racking cause of compaction. I have never gone that long because I would be afraid of flavors possibly leaching into the wine from the fining agents. What fining agents have you done this with?

 

[Dean]

Usually with isinglass, Chitosan, and sometimes Kieselsol and Chitosan. I've not had any off flavours, but usually I get increased mouthfeel from leaving it that long. Once I forgot about it for over a year, and it was still quite good! It compacts very well during that time, at which point, I can agressively rack and not really lose much more than 1/2 a cup at most.