Brown chardonnay

[nicklausjames]

I did contact the store. They refused to take any responsibility. They said this is how it is supposed to be and if I even wanted them to consider a refund I would have to drive the open bucket back 1.5 hrs in my car. I sent them a pic and they reiterated it is supposed to be "golden." Before I complain about them online I want to confirm that there is an issue with the juice bc maybe I am wrong. Like I said I have not worked w chardonnay before.

Why no mlf on the brown?

To clarify I was asking about combining the brown with the two whites. Originally I planned on doing all 18 gallons together. When isaw the brown I fermented it separately. I am going to run mlf on the white and was planning on doing the brown to.

I was also hoping if it clarified a little I could combine them all together and go back to my original plan of 18 gallons. I thought the brown may not be recognizable if combined with the other two, particularly if it clarifies at all on its own.

 

[ReefKeeper]

My concern with the brown batch is that it is oxidized. Adding SO2 will help minimize the risk of it becoming more oxidized. However, SO2 will kill MLB so the wine won't go through MLF. There is also a chance that the brown bucket may have acetobacter or other spoilage organism if it was left exposed to oxygen after fermentation. Acetobacter produces volatile acidity (acedic acid) as does MLF. The combination could bring levels beyond sensory threshold. There's not reallyu a way for a home winemaker to test VA. It requires the use of a cash still. I'd error on the side of caution. You can always blend the three buckets back later and get more of a white Burgundy style Chardonnay. I'd really want to get a high dose of SO2 in the brown batch ASAP.

If you really want to run MLF on it, rack it, thief a sample and evaluate it (you should probably do this any way). Check the color in the glass in good light and smell for any off aromas. I also taste all of my wines through all phases of production, looking for flaws. If there are any flaws beyond a little H2S I would not run MLF. Just my $0.02. If you do innoculate, keep it warm and get it completed quickly so you can get SO2 in it.

The reason I wouldn't blend them now is that if the brown wine is contaminated with something, now all your wine will be. If there is a flaw you will add it to the good wine before they're finished. This allows you to fix the flaw in one carboy without treating the entire batch. If one treatment doesn't work, you can try another, again without affecting all of your wine. Once you add it you can't take it back. You can always blend them further down the line though. You keep more control of the way the finished wine will end up this way.

I usually work with multiple yeasts for each varietal every vintage and sometimes will experiment with different tannins or other products. I've gotten in to the habit of keeping carboys separate (including my press fractions) until about a month before bottling. Then I evaluate the wines on their own. I'll run trials to see if the wines are better blended or left on their own. It keeps the variables to a minimum and allows me to see how different treatments affect the same wines.

 

[nicklausjames]

Good advice. Thx

 

[grapeman]

I really think ReefKeeper is overthinking this at this point. Like I and others have said, keep it separate and see if it turns out fine. Sometimes overthinking and reacting can cause many unneeded problems. Like I said earlier, the juice could have just come from riper grapes containing more pigment in the skins and actually taste better than the lighter wine. Look at the avatar for my usename. See how the grapes are a golden color? Those are nice ripe St Pepin grapes exposed to the sun. Shaded grapes of the same variety are a light green color. The juice from the exposed grapes is darker than the shaded grapes. The finished wine is slightly more golden than the shaded ones.

I will try to post a couple pictures later I just took of two flextanks showing this in 200 gallon tanks. I will keep the two separate and possibly blend later.

 

[nicklausjames]

Thx grape man. That is really my question, is it just darker juice or is it oxidized or having some other problem. I'm going to continue it separately so I guess I'll find out.

 

[grapeman]

Here are two pictures of the same variety of grape - St Pepin which has a lot of characteristics of Chardonnay. The darker ones have darker juice than the lighter colored one my boy is holding in the second picture.

 

[grapeman]

As promised earlier, here are two tanks (200 gallons each) of the same variety of white grape. The one tank on the right is from on a nice sandy site with nice open exposure to the clusters. It is a darker color and much more pronounced peach and apricot flavors. The one on the left is from another vineyard with heavier soils and much more vigorous growth where the clusters are less exposed. While it still has nice fruit flavors, there is also a taste and smell of pineapple and grapefruit. Is one better than the other because it is lighter or darker? No, they are just two variations of the same grapes and wine. And no, the window there does not affect the wine. It is on the shaded side of the building and is pretty small. I also put insulation over it soon which blocks out any sunlight.

 

[ReefKeeper]

I really think ReefKeeper is overthinking this at this point.

The OP states that he purchased 2 buckets that had a brix reading of 15 brix and one of 0 brix when he received them and I'm over thinking it? I might be a bit more inclined to agree with you that this is a difference in batches had these buckets not been obviously mistreated. Who knows how long the brown bucket has been sitting around after fermentation completed? I personally would refuse any must entering the winery that was already fermenting, let alone one that had completed fermentation.

The risk that the brown bucket is oxidized is very real and keeping them separate until proven otherwise is obvious to me. I'd rather end up with 12 gallons of decent wine than risk 18 gallons of Chardonnay with acetaldehyde[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT] notes. You are correct that riper berries will have a higher phenolic content (which are prone to oxidation, hence the browner juice) but I disagree that this is the likely explanation in this case simply due to the state the must was received in.

 

[grapeman]

I really don't want to get into a disagreement over this. Pretty much everyone, and myself included has recommended keeping this batch separate just as you are saying. Could this be oxidized? Of course it could be. Nobody is disputing that. Is it oxidized to the point it is no good? The OP sayed himself it tastes and smell fine. Let time settle this. He has done his due diligence by contacting the supplier. ReefKeeper,I respect your opinion on this and it could well be the case, however I don't believe he should do anything harsh such as throwing it out too soon. I have seen many new winemakers overreact to a problem and automatically throw the batch out. If it is a slight oxidation problem affecting color there are remedies that can work in many cases.

 

[grapeman]

View attachment 18993


I wanted to post a pic bc I fermented the juice and I'm wondering if it is still good. Will the color clear or is it going to look like pond water forever. It doesn't taste that bad.

After rereading all this I am really confused now. On November 1 the brix was 0, meaning it was dry so should have been done fermenting. Then on Nov 14 you said you went ahead and fermented it and the picture clearly shows foam at the top, indicating a fermentation is still going on. Have there been any bubbles in the airlock?

It would be nice to get to the bottom of the problem.

 

[nicklausjames]

I am confused to. When I purchased it I measured the brix it was zero. I added sulfite, I think 3 tabs campden. Following this it has been bubbling profusely since. In fact today I added acti malo plus and it foamed over. I took it to the garage and degassed under pressure for at least 20 mins. I am certain my original brix reading was correct as I did it 3 times, unless there is something seriously wrong with my hydrometer.

 

[nicklausjames]

FYI I bought this 10/30 and added the sulfite 11/1. I never added yeast because it was bubbling so much, I just thought it was fermenting. I left it in the garage and I'm in ny so it was fairly cool but even if it was 28 brix it shoukd be done fermenting now, correct?

 

[grapeman]

Have there been bubbles out the airlock steady? If so the only way that could happen is if there is an active fermentation. There needs to be sugar for an active fermentation. If it was a mlf (malolactic fermentation) going on it would produce air bubbles but those are tiny bubbles and make a small ring around the neck of the carboy at the wine surface (higher than you have your level now). That would be a small amount of bubbles and make the airlock bubble once in a while. If it is steady, it is active- if bubbling at a crawl, it could be degassing or mlf. I assume when you said you degassed under pressure, you mean under vacuum. If it is still bubbling after that, it is still active.

Unless you are a winery or some other reason, why not get your SG reading in a normal specific gravity reading. What did it originally read when you say it was 0 brix? That would mean a number under 1.000. If you were using a refractometer, that would require the use of an error correction table if fermentation had begun.

 

[nicklausjames]

I used one of those triple scale hydro meters. I just chose brix to look at rather than sg. Yes the bubbles have been consistent. Perhaps there is something wrong with my hydrometer?