bleach, what bleach?

[ejiang]

When we talk about using bleach to sanitize, is this the same bleach we usually buy for the laundry?

I just got some 10 carboys from yard sales. They are cheap but I am not comfortable to use unless I over sanitize them, not sure what's been put in before So I am thinking of using bleach to nuke them.

But what bleach to buy and how to properlly use them? i.e., how much water to add, fill up the carboy or not? time to soak?

Thanks

EJ

 

[grapeman]

chlorine bleach is generally not adviseable to use in the winemaking area. Chlorine can help TCA form- also known as cork taint. Get yourself some B-Brite or other cleaner which is an oxygenationg cleaner to help remove gunk. You can use other like cleaners. After a good brushing and the carboy looks clean, rinse it well several times. Then make a sanitizing strength solution of potassium metabisulfite and pour about an inch into the carboy and stopper it. Leave it there until ready to use at which point pour it out and let it drain completely and it is ready to use, sanitized and all.

 

[saramc]

I do not use bleach (or chlorine) ANYWHERE in my winemaking area. Even choosing to pour down drain pipes in your winemaking area (if you are setup like that) can come back to haunt you if you use bleach.

 

[Julie]

as stated above, bleach is not good. there are a lot of sanitizers for winemaking to use that are much better than bleach.

 

[ibglowin]

No bleach anywhere around wine!

 

[cohenhouse77]

I had some rather icky carboys I found that I cleaned with white or apple cider vinegar and a brush to appease my OCD, then rinsed about 5 times allowing to dry each time, then used the oxygenating cleansers, then the no rinse cleansers right before use.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

When we talk about using bleach to sanitize, is this the same bleach we usually buy for the laundry?

I just got some 10 carboys from yard sales. They are cheap but I am not comfortable to use unless I over sanitize them, not sure what's been put in before So I am thinking of using bleach to nuke them.

But what bleach to buy and how to properlly use them? i.e., how much water to add, fill up the carboy or not? time to soak?

Thanks

EJ

Like the others said. Oxyclean to clean and starsan to sanitize will work every time.

 

[g8keeper]

I had some rather icky carboys I found that I cleaned with white or apple cider vinegar and a brush to appease my OCD, then rinsed about 5 times allowing to dry each time, then used the oxygenating cleansers, then the no rinse cleansers right before use.

i think i'd be even worried about using vinegar in my wine making area....you never know when it comes to that "vinegar fly"....if that is in the area, you are running the risk of contamination of everything else you have going, not to mention if for some reason that carboy doesn't get properly cleaned and sanitized prior to use, then i think you can kiss the batch put into that carboy goodbye.....

 

[BeerAlchemist]

i think i'd be even worried about using vinegar in my wine making area....you never know when it comes to that "vinegar fly"....if that is in the area, you are running the risk of contamination of everything else you have going, not to mention if for some reason that carboy doesn't get properly cleaned and sanitized prior to use, then i think you can kiss the batch put into that carboy goodbye.....

On the flip side a little watered down cider vinegar with a couple drops of dish soap has been the best fruit fly trap I have ever used. But, I certainly wouldn't use vinegar to wash any equipment.

 

[cohenhouse77]

I agree. First of all I don't wash my glass in the same place that I make my wine so I'm not too worried about that. Also I would never use vinegar if I was anywhere near close to being using that glass for wine. Mainly I have used it on the glass that had visible mold growing on the inside of it due to the glass not being rinsed after the previous use. That's good to know about the vinegar fly though. I'm not sure if we have those down here in Florida.

 

[TonyP]

When we talk about using bleach to sanitize, is this the same bleach we usually buy for the laundry?

I just got some 10 carboys from yard sales. They are cheap but I am not comfortable to use unless I over sanitize them, not sure what's been put in before So I am thinking of using bleach to nuke them.

But what bleach to buy and how to properlly use them? i.e., how much water to add, fill up the carboy or not? time to soak?

Thanks

EJ

EJ, with all the fine cleaners available, few wine makers need to use chlorine. Wine and chlorine don't go together.
Tony P.

 

[robie]

Not that you need to hear it again, but actually, bleach is not that great a sanitizer, anyway. It does kill some germs, but it works great to bleach, though.

Something like a Kmeta solution and StarSan will actually do a better job of sanitizing.

 

[TonyP]

Not that you need to hear it again, but actually, bleach is not that great a sanitizer, anyway. It does kill some germs, but it works great to bleach, though.

Something like a Kmeta solution and StarSan will actually do a better job of sanitizing.

I misspoke, above. I've heard of using bleach to clean used equipment but never to sanitize so I didn't catch the question.

Tony P.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

I misspoke, above. I've heard of using bleach to clean used equipment but never to sanitize so I didn't catch the question.

Tony P.

You would use bleach as a sanitizer it doesnt clean. However like already discussed the market has provided superior products so bleach in making wine is really an anachronism.

 

[JohnT]

I would recomend using PBW to clean (instead of bleach).

If not PBW, then why not try using some liquid automatic dish-washer soap?
My thinking is this... I would not want to eat off of anything that has just been cleaned with bleach, but i would have no problem eating off of a plate cleaned with automatic dishwasher soap (do it all the time). The stuff really melts away any wine deposits.

 

[TonyP]

I would recomend using PBW to clean (instead of bleach).

If not PBW, then why not try using some liquid automatic dish-washer soap?
My thinking is this... I would not want to eat off of anything that has just been cleaned with bleach, but i would have no problem eating off of a plate cleaned with automatic dishwasher soap (do it all the time). The stuff really melts away any wine deposits.

Most, if not all, of the popular soaps and detergents contain fragrances, brightiners and other additives that can give off-flavors and odors to wine.
Tony P.

 

[g8keeper]

Most, if not all, of the popular soaps and detergents contain fragrances, brightiners and other additives that can give off-flavors and odors to wine.
Tony P.

hence the reason i have never used anything but a food grade, oxygen based cleaner such as b-brite to clean my equipment, and then p.m.b.s. for sanitizing if making wine, or idophor if doing beer....have never had any problems cleaning any stubborn spots using hot water and b-brite, nor have i ever had any contaminations using these sanitizers....but i have never used bleach even in small doses on my equipment....

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Things like B-Brite and oxyclean use sodium percarbonate as their main active ingredient and sodium percarbonate in turn is a powder consisting of hydrogen peroxide and soda ash which are both perfectly safe for our purposes.

PBW uses a 70/30 mix of sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate with an unknown surfactant. The metasilicate helps to soften hard water. One could possibly go to a pool supply store and get a pure form of sodium percarbonate and then go to the hardware store and get some phosphate free - TSP (which is actually metasilicate) and make their own PBW if you have hard water issues to deal with.

Automatic dishwashing detergents can contain a large number of chemicals such as surfactants, phosphates, chlorines, aluminum compounds to protect finishes, alkalis such as trisodium phosphate (TSP) or sodium carbonate (soda ash), and some other things that don't really impact wine making needs.

Normal dish soap, like Dawn, use triclosan as a sanitizing agent to kill mold, mildew, and bacteria; however, I do not believe it is in strong enough concentration to ever rely on as a sanitizing agent especially considering it needs to be rinsed. As far as a cleaning agent, its probably not going to do much.

For me, when I clean any equipment I use hot water and fragrance free oxy-clean or some generic form of it. I have PBW, but find it works only slightly better than oxy so the added expense does not make it worthwhile. I then rinse with hot water and store or proceed to sanitizing in which I use starsan or saniclean exclusively. This route both cleans and sanitizes my metal, plastic, and glass equipment with no fear that I am introducing any unknown chemicals or going to have a negative reaction with the material being cleaned and sanitized.