A table grape experience

[BobF]

Last year I made a gallon from Welch's Black grapes. At stabalize time it was quite tasty, like commercial concord wines only better

I added sulfite and sorbate and a bit of sugar to bring it off dry. I left it for about a month and bottled.

A few days ago I opened a bottle. Up front it was very, very good! The finish was geranium :-(

I've concluded that it went through a volunteer MLF. Apparently I didn't use enough sulfite ...

Two lessons: 1) Use enough sulfite! 2) Table grapes CAN make a tasty wine.

 

[ffemt128]

Interesting. We just bought a large pack of grapes at costco and I know our 3 y/o won't eat them all before they go bad. May have to consider adding them to something in the near future as a filler for body and additional flavors.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Last year I made a gallon from Welch's Black grapes. At stabalize time it was quite tasty, like commercial concord wines only better

I added sulfite and sorbate and a bit of sugar to bring it off dry. I left it for about a month and bottled.

A few days ago I opened a bottle. Up front it was very, very good! The finish was geranium :-(

I've concluded that it went through a volunteer MLF. Apparently I didn't use enough sulfite ...

Two lessons: 1) Use enough sulfite! 2) Table grapes CAN make a tasty wine.

With the finish being a geranium - does that mean the wine is bad or just not what was expected?

 

[BobF]

With the finish being a geranium - does that mean the wine is bad or just not what was expected?

geranium indicates MLF with sorbate.

 

[winemaker_3352]

geranium indicates MLF with sorbate.

Do you have to throw it out now?

 

[BobF]

Do you have to throw it out now?

Yep. Nothing can be done. Thankfully it was a 1g batch.

 

[stdkls28]

Sorry but what is "MLF"?

 

[winemaker_3352]

Sorry but what is "MLF"?

Malolactic fermentation - is a process where certain types of bacteria degrade the malic acid that is available in a wine into lactic acid and CO2 gas.

I have a question related to this - how can ensure that you prevent MLF from occurring? I and doing a chardonel and seyval and i don't want to do an MLF and i don't want it to occur on its own either.

 

[BobF]

Malolactic fermentation - is a process where certain types of bacteria degrade the malic acid that is available in a wine into lactic acid and CO2 gas.

I have a question related to this - how can ensure that you prevent MLF from occurring? I and doing a chardonel and seyval and i don't want to do an MLF and i don't want it to occur on its own either.

I haven't done this ...

I've read that there are 4 ways to prevent MLF:
1. Low temp
2. Low pH
3. SO2 > 35ppm
4. Lysozyme

Sorry, no links.

 

[JohnT]

most MLB is very sensitive to SO2. I recomend going with a heavy hand when adding sulfite.

 

[winemaker_3352]

most MLB is very sensitive to SO2. I recomend going with a heavy hand when adding sulfite.

Yeah - isn't the SO2 level suppose to be around 50-55ppm anyway?

 

[non-grapenut]

not all of my accidental MLFs were unpleasant or geranium-my...it happened to a peach and then to a grapefruit wine and both were amazing.

 

[BobF]

not all of my accidental MLFs were unpleasant or geranium-my...it happened to a peach and then to a grapefruit wine and both were amazing.

Had they been sorbated?

 

[ellijaywinemaker]

Last year I made a gallon from Welch's Black grapes. At stabalize time it was quite tasty, like commercial concord wines only better

I added sulfite and sorbate and a bit of sugar to bring it off dry. I left it for about a month and bottled.

A few days ago I opened a bottle. Up front it was very, very good! The finish was geranium :-(

I've concluded that it went through a volunteer MLF. Apparently I didn't use enough sulfite ...

Two lessons: 1) Use enough sulfite! 2) Table grapes CAN make a tasty wine.

Grape concentrate does make a tasty wine. Next time use potassum sorbate at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon evryone needs a little potassum in there diet LOL

 

[non-grapenut]

Had they been sorbated?

It was in the beginning of my hobby days and I didn't put enough sorbate in. Back then I had an experience when I put too much sorbate in a blueberry wine, so I was a little shellshocked for a bit. I am over it now, though I did have a cherry wine that slightly MLF'd even though I did put in enough sorbate. Mother Nature is a powerful thing.

 

[jet]

AFAIK sorbate will not prevent MLF.

 

[BobF]

Grape concentrate does make a tasty wine. Next time use potassum sorbate at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon evryone needs a little potassum in there diet LOL

Who said anything about concentrate?

 

[BobF]

It was in the beginning of my hobby days and I didn't put enough sorbate in. Back then I had an experience when I put too much sorbate in a blueberry wine, so I was a little shellshocked for a bit. I am over it now, though I did have a cherry wine that slightly MLF'd even though I did put in enough sorbate. Mother Nature is a powerful thing.

I don't think sorbate prevents MLF. I asked b/c I'm curious why you didn't get geraniums. My understanding is that MLF combined with sorbate = geranium.

In my case, I didn't pay enough attention to sulfite - I didn't keep it high enough to prevent MLF. That, combined with sorbate, is what caused my geranium problem.

I knew better.

 

[non-grapenut]

yeah...definitely a problem when trying NOT to use a whole lot of sulfite....MLF happens. I really try to limit my sulfites...headaches...so...as you pointed out, Bob...MLF happens now and then.

 

[Wade E]

Was the wine fizzy at all from MLFing in the bottle?