1st attempt at Wine making, Welches Concentrate (Please Help Validate Steps)

[JimC]

Okay this is my 1st attempt at wine making at all... let me know if I have this correct from the below steps:
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Making Wine from Welch’s Concentrate in 6 Gallon Carboy
1. Clean: Clean all items with B-Brite. Bucket/ Carboy, etc.
2. Sterilize: Sterilize all items with Sodium Metabisolufate. Use 1 gallon jug fill with ½ water then 2 oz of Sodium Metabisolfate, shake until dissolved then add rest of water. Use in sprayer our pouring over all items. Mixture is reusable until it loses smell or 2-3 months.
3. Thaw 12 Welch’s 100% frozen concentrate while dissolving Sugar in spring water on stove.
4. Mix up Must: Add (12)Welch’s, (8lbs) Sugar-Water, (7 tsp) Acid, (3 tsp) Pectic Enzyme, (6) Campden tablets crushed and dissolved in water. Then add 3 tsp. Super Ferment yeast nutrient - cheap insurance. Mix up in bucket and top off with spring water to 6 gallon line. Place bucket lid on and let sit for 24 hours. Stir 3-4 Times during this period. Measure S.G and it should be between 1.080 and 1.1
If initial SG is short of the minimum 1.080, then add Sugar per table…

5. Yeast add: After 24 hours dissolve yeast in water 100 degrees to 105 degrees and let sit for 10 mins then pour into Must and recover with lid place over and no air lock.
6. Check daily monitoring the air lock until fermentation slows down to a slow to no bubble checking S.G. S.G. until a gravity of (~.995 to 1.05). Should be at least under 1.005 by this point. This is when you will siphon from bucket to carboy.
7. Racking (1) to Carboy: Rack to carboy using the sterilized siphon careful not to overfill, or suck up sediment but fill up to neck. Fit Airlock in carboy with some Sodium Metabisolfite and water ½ in Airlock. Let it sit for 3 weeks to 6 weeks.
8. Racking (2): Rerack into 2nd carboy. Degass 1st before re-racking with the drill attachment being carful on speed until hardly any bubbles forming up. This step is only necessary if you are trying to "push" the wine through the fermentation/settling stage rather quickly. Once you've de-gassed the wine, add the bentonite or other clarifier. Then add 3-4 Campden Tablet for 6 gallons (Crushed in spring water) and place in 2nd Carboy before re-racking wine over. Reapply Airlock and let sit for another month.
9. Pre bottling: Check for sweetness and see if to liking if you need to add sugar to sweeten then add 3 tsp of Sorbate + 3 crushed campden tablets to prevent wine from re-fermenting.
10. Bottling: Sterilize Bottles with the Sodium MetaBisolufate then bottle.
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BTW I started my 1st Batch on 3/15 at 5pm mixing up Must. Initial SG was 1.1. 24 hours later I added yeast. on 3/17 at 9pm i had a full blown head of yeast and it smelled like bread. Tonight (3/18 8:45 PM) I lifted lid and head was gone but it was bubbling like mad and smelled more like it was fermenting. I decided to stir since i read on this forum to stir during primary stage for more O2 to get to yeast. I took SG reading and it was 1.076 (down from 1.1 in 52 hour period)... I have no thermometer but house is between 73-76 degrees.. I also have no way to test acidity ... Anyhow thanks for any tips or feed back.. Also please let me know if i have the Degassing in the right place (in above steps) or do i degass right after primary and before secondary? (between Bucket to 1st racking to Carboy?)

thanks Jim

 

[Julie]

Hi Jim,

Welcome to winemakingtalk. Sorry to say this but 2 cans per gallon is no where near enough juice. Your wine is going to be very weak in flavor.

 

[Arne]

Not to worry, tho. You can still add the extra cans of juice. I havn't made this stuff so don't know exactly how many cans you need. Somebody will pop up and tell you, tho. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Number two on your list...please don't "smell" the k-meta solution, those fumes kill all kinds of things. You are better off not having too much of them inside your body!

 

[JimC]

Yikes I will be glad to know what the ratio should be then as i followed this recipe.. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques65.asp

I assume though that the steps are correct and the timing of degassing?

 

[Julie]

Jack Keller is always light on the fruit flavor. I would do 6 more cans and possible a couple of cans when you backsweeten, if you are going to do that.

 

[jswordy]

Please add 4 cans of concentrate per gallon. I have made gallons of this stuff; you will not be sorry.

Everything looks pretty good except:

8. Racking (2): Rerack into 2nd carboy. Degass 1st before re-racking with the drill attachment being carful on speed until hardly any bubbles forming up. This step is only necessary if you are trying to "push" the wine through the fermentation/settling stage rather quickly. Once you've de-gassed the wine, add the bentonite or other clarifier. Then add 3-4 Campden Tablet for 6 gallons (Crushed in spring water) and place in 2nd Carboy before re-racking wine over. Reapply Airlock and let sit for another month.

Degassing is not optional and it is not about "pushing" the wine. This is a very gassy wine, especially so if you use a really active yeast like EC1118. Degas it, period. Be careful because it will foam like crazy once you start that drill. Allow headroom, go slow speed and have a towel ready. If you do not degas, your wine could have trouble clearing. As far as clearing, I never use clearing agents. That is "pushing" the wine. I just let it sit until it clears. Patience is a virtue you will learn with this hobby.

9. Pre bottling: Check for sweetness and see if to liking if you need to add sugar to sweeten then add 3 tsp of Sorbate + 3 crushed campden tablets to prevent wine from re-fermenting.

This is not quite right to me. What you is to add your sorbate and ke meta to the bottom of a clean and sanitized carboy, rack onto it, stir, and allow it to sit for 3-5 days, then adjust your sugars. You want time for the yeast to mellow out so you reduce your re-fermenting chances.

10. Bottling: Sterilize Bottles with the Sodium MetaBisolufate then bottle.

You'll find most folks here use potassium metabisulfite. It's a small point but sodium is not added to the wine with potassium metabisulfite, written here in shorthand as k meta. BTW, your wine will improve markedly after 6 months in the bottles, if you can leave some alone that long!

 

[JimC]

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far . So if I add some concentrate now it will up my sugar content and raise the SG and extend the fermentation time? What does it do to the final Alcohol content?

 

[wineforfun]

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far . So if I add some concentrate now it will up my sugar content and raise the SG and extend the fermentation time? What does it do to the final Alcohol content?

Adding concentrate now will up your sugar content and possibly extend the fermentation time. A big factor in your fermentation time is what type of yeast did you use and what is it's alcohol tolerance? If it will handle the extra sugar, it will up your alcohol content some. If it won't, it will sweeten your wine up some.

 

[jswordy]

Since you are off to the races now, I would wait, add sorbate and k meta to stabilize it after racking it a second time, then add the concentrate to the back end as a flavor booster. It will sweeten your wine, but if you start off dry, that won't be a big boost to sweetness. That way your ABV will not go higher.

Once you do all the back flavoring and back sweetening you want, you will have to let the wine sit awhile to clear again, or you will find small less in your bottles anywhere from 1-6 months later. No biggie, you can stand the bottle up before drinking and let them settle, then leave some wine in the bottom, but it nicer not to have to do that.

 

[JimC]

Just as FYI I used Redstar "Montrachet" for they yeast

 

[Abrnth3]

You may add consentrate now and more to back sweeten later. I have made a few gallons with 2 can consentrate and they were flavorful, but I ussually use 3/4 cans and less sugar. I also add yeast by sprinkling it over my must after it has cooled down to under 90* and mix it in 10 min later. Stir twice a day and Rack 1 in 10-14 days. Rack again evry month for 3 months. My wine clears sparkling clear with no clearing agents and ussually very drinkable. cotinue on and learn from you're mistakes good and bad. I use red star "pasteur" yeast seem to work well with consentates.

 

[JimC]

wow I was off on what yeast i used. It was Red Star "Premier Cuvee.... I don't know anything about the yeast differences so i need to look up a few threads and start reading.

 

[jswordy]

You may add consentrate now and more to back sweeten later. I have made a few gallons with 2 can consentrate and they were flavorful, but I ussually use 3/4 cans and less sugar. I also add yeast by sprinkling it over my must after it has cooled down to under 90* and mix it in 10 min later. Stir twice a day and Rack 1 in 10-14 days. Rack again evry month for 3 months. My wine clears sparkling clear with no clearing agents and ussually very drinkable. cotinue on and learn from you're mistakes good and bad. I use red star "pasteur" yeast seem to work well with consentates.

I am curious about your "after it cools down to 90*" comment. I never heat my must. I just put the concentrate cans in a warm water bath to defrost, but I use tap-temp water when making must in the primary. So I'm curious - are you using the heat as a sanitizer instead of k meta, or what?

My yeast of choice with concord now is RC212. So we all have different ones we like!

 

[Abrnth3]

Heating water for dissolving sugar, then I just add concetrate to bring temp back down before I add yeast. It is neccessary to make sure must is not too hot for yeast servival. I have used RC212 in wine from fruit but not a concentrate wine, yet; ussually don't need that much alcohal tolerance.

 

[jswordy]

OIC on temp. I just add the sugar to tap water and stir. I know old timers who don't use chemicals at all will boil their water and add it to the bucket hot as a sterilant, so I wondered.

RC212 has about the same tolerance at Pasteur. It ferments consistently for me to 13% ABV and stops, though the data sheet says 16% tolerance (Pasteur is 13-15%). I probably could force 212 to 16% by warming the must, but why?

RC212 data: http://www.lalvinyeast.com/images/library/RC212_Yeast.pdf

I like it in Welch's and with red grapes for its red wine properties, and I especially like to super-sugar it so there's residual sweetness left behind.

 

[LonelyMassachusetts]

I've done a five gallon batch of welch's before. My two cents is that it's better to wait more than one month before bottling; I'd wait around four months. I did it the quickie way and I got sediment dropped in all of my bottles.

 

[jswordy]

Listen to Lonely. 3 months minimum, 4 is better. And if you want it to taste really good, wait a minimum 6 months out of primary before you drink any. (Good luck with that!)

 

[saramc]

Jim...when all was said and done, how many cans of concentrate did you use as this fermented?

Here is a link to a handy yeast chart, http://winemakermag.com/guide/yeast
The Premier Cuvee will ferment out to 18% and change.

I saw that your original post mentions watching airlock for activity, I think it was in a section about racking--I recommend to stay away from that method. Simply because not all batches create a lot of airlock activity. Should you see airlock activity, sure, if you don't please check bung/seals, but your hydrometer will tell you better than anything what is happening with the ferment. I have had countless batches with slow, quiet airlock movement--but I could see signs of fermentation in the carboy, hear the fermentation. You will read many panicked posts where an airlock was in place yet there was no airlock activity, yet when they checked SG it had dropped by leaps& bounds already--gasp, how could this be when they never saw the airlock move? Why, during bulk aging in carboy, airlock activity can be caused by offgassing of dry wine, barometric pressure changes, or a spontaneous malolactic fermentation, etc.

When it comes time to stabilize, just remember that if you plan to backsweeten with a fermentable sugar you always use sorbate in combination with k-meta (if you want to avoid sorbate then choose a non-fermentable sugar and/or check out bottle pasteurization). If you will not be backsweetening there is NO reason to use sorbate. I believe Jack Keller mentions he commonly adds both regardless, perhaps in his section on stabilizing.

And no matter where you read it, learn now that you CANNOT stop a ferment or kill yeast by adding k-meta plus sorbate--just saving you from heartache and exploding bottles. If it really were that simple don't you think we would all be doing that? Just getting that out there, LOL.

 

[Arne]

Listen to Lonely. 3 months minimum, 4 is better. And if you want it to taste really good, wait a minimum 6 months out of primary before you drink any. (Good luck with that!)

Lets see you put your hand on a Bible and swear I have not had a taste of this wine til it was done fermenting for 6 months. I know I am not going to do it, I am scared of lightning and such. LOL, Arne.