Wine kit gone wrong?

[MoridinUK]

Hi all,

I've just finished my first attempt at brewing wine at home!

However, I've got a nagging feeling I may have a problem. I used a 4 week Kenridge Classic California Connoisseur shiraz wine kit. From Vineco.

I followed the instructions but some things went differently, my spec gravity at start was 1.082 which was within the target range, but by the end of Primary Fermentation the spec grav was down to 0.995 (target was < 1.010). I didn't worry about this much and continues to follow the instructions. After secondary fermentation I was instructed to stir the wine several times over 48 hrs to degas it. This was fine but for reasons I wont go into I had to leave the wine at this stage for a few extra days. I then added potassium Sorbate and a fining agent as instructed and left the wine for another few days.

My problem is that the wine isn't clear. It's not cloudy like it was back in secondary fermentation stage, but it is really rather dark (not quite opaque though)

It looks more like a Port.

It tastes fine! (I had one glass to see!) and I hope I wont regret that glass. So far I've bottled 4 bottles and still have about 15-18 bottles to go. I was wondering if there were any tips or anything anyone would suggest?

I know it's a big ask but maybe someones used one of these kit's before?

Thanks for any help!

MoridinUK

 

[Flem]

I don't think there's a thing wrong with your kit. I just think you bottled it too soon. It can take several days, if not weeks, for the wine to clear. Patience, my friend, patience. Good Luck!!

 

[Tom]

yea I agree. Not for a minute do I believe that you can bottle in 4 weeks. Did you add the clearing agent?

 

[ibglowin]

It was a mistake to bottle if it wasn't clear. What was the temp of the wine when you tried to degas? It its not at least 70 degrees its not going to give up the CO2 very easily.

 

[MoridinUK]

I degas'ed at about 70 degrees.
Anyway to check I got all the gas out?

And I have plenty I have not bottled. I can leave it to settle some more, but it is taking up room in the kitchen!

So more patience then...

any advice on the four bottles? Throw out, wash re-use?

 

[ibglowin]

Don't throw out. Uncork and pour back into the carboy and let it sit until it clears. Keep it warm until it does. Rack once more after it clears then bottle.

 

[robie]

If you bottle it while cloudy, it will remain cloudy in the bottle indefinitely.

When you put it back into the carboy, be sure to add an air lock to the carboy, so it can expel some of the CO2. As Mike said, keep temperature up.

Even if it is a red wine, one can still tell if the wine is cloudy. Fill a wine glass about half full; take a look at the color. If it has a whitish tint, sort of like you are looking at it through a soapy glass, it is still cloudy. Hold it up to the light; it should look pure and clean. It could take 3 or 4 weeks for it to clear. Just don't be in a hurry.

When you think you have gotten rid of all the CO2, fill a wine bottle about half full of your wine. Put your thumb over bottle opening and shake really hard. Next, remove your thumb and listen for a pop. The pop means there is gas in the wine, especially if you get lots of small bubbles, like you get when you pour a coke into a glass. Just be mindful that even a half bottle of water will make bubbles if shaken enough... the bubbles from CO2 are much smaller than oxygen bubbles. If you still have CO2, stir some more and try the experiment again. Personally, I find getting rid of all the CO2 a challenge every time.

 

[Wade E]

Actually it should be more around 75* when degassing and even thoigh some fining agents say they work when at colder temp Ive seen many of them fail at those temps but when warmed up drop clear in days. Even when it is clear you really need to give it more time as it will most likely still drop out very fine sediment that you usually cant see especially in a red wine.

 

[MoridinUK]

Well, I've no idea how to raise it's temperature....

I don't have a jacket as this is my first attempt at making wine.

Right so pour the bottle back and settle down for another 3-4 weeks... I'm going to have to move it from the kitchen then. or at least back to the floor.

Short of turning the heat up in the house, I've no idea how to get it to 75 F (24 C) That's makes for a very warm day here (i'm in the UK)

I'll have to think on it.

Thanks for the tips on how to tell that it's clear and de gas. Would changing the carboy again help degas it?

 

[ibglowin]

Do you have an electric heating pad? Set the carboy on top of it and turn it on the lowest setting and monitor it closely (temp wise) till you feel like you can trust it. You may have to turn it off every day for a few hours if it gets above 24C and let it cool a few degrees. Use a large towel to wrap around the carboy for extra insulation as well. Also some heating pads will turn off automatically after an hour or so. Those will not work well for this application.

 

[grapeman]

I would definitely put the wine back in the carboy to make sure it is up to the neck of it. After you bottle 4 bottles you are down almost a gallon and your wine will quickly oxidize and be ruined. Fill it up, warm it up and let it clear. The times given are only estimates and vary by local conditions. It may finish clearing in a few days but may take a month more. You could always add some SupeKleer KC to it and it should quickly clear. Rack it off the lees after that and then bottle when clear.

 

[MoridinUK]

uh-oh... Well I'm annoyed a bit then. I have the wine in the primary fermentation bucket because I don't have 2 carboys and my little experiment was getting expensive if I went and bought more... I thought I'd be ok with that as my kit told me not to top up, which would have left a larger surface area exposed even in a carboy. The kit also says the wine is only good for 6 months so I don't think it stabilises well.

Well according to the temperature sticker thing, on the side of my fermentation bucket. (I had a fermentation bucket and what I use as a carboy, so I alternate between them, primary ferm in the bucket, secondary in the carboy and then back into the bucket during degas and clarifcation.) i guess I should rack it soon.

The temp sticker thing says my wine is between 22-24 so floating between 70-75. I shook a half bottle with my hand over the top for about 15 seconds. I got a very faint popping sound and about 3/4 inch of froth on the top of the wine. do the same with water from the tap and i get an even fainter popping sound and no or very little froth.

So I need to de gas some more. I guess racking would help de-gas in and of itself. But I need to stir the stuff, and stir it a lot huh? I think it could be better in my carboy thing. It has a wide enough neck that I could still stir it but it would have less surface area in contact with the air when I did so.

I should probably get a proper carboy, but this is only my first go and I don't want to end up with a huge bill. I also have a barrel From when I made beer but I don't think that is any use to me now. While on the subject of my rudimentary equipment I'm using these airlocks which required topping up almost every day. The gas forces the water/steriliser out.

If I transfer to the carboy it is feasible that I could shake the whole thing to de-gas it. This would undo any settling that has already happened but probably help?

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm now starting to fear that I've lost the lot...

 

[robie]

For next time, order a brew belt from the place where you bought your kit. They work great for keeping the wine warm, especially for degassing.

 

[robie]

You haven't lost it. It will be fine, especially if it is meant to be drank in only six months. Is the wine a sweet "summer" wine or mist wine? I am not familiar with that kit.

You can rack it from your carboy (second bucket) into the fermentor bucket, then back to the carboy.

Get extra food grade buckets and lids for free at Wal-mart and Target bakeries. Usually, they will give you more than you can carry.

Don't try to shake the container to degas. When you do rack it from one container to another, splash rack it-- Because it is still gassy, let the wine splash into the new container with the output end of the hose always above the surface of the wine, causing it to splash. This splashing allows the CO2 to come out, especially if the temperature is above 70F (75F is better).

 

[sly22guy]

When you rack from your carboy to the bucket it should only remain in the bucket long enough for you to rinse and sanitize the carboy and then it should be racked back to the carboy and topped up. (Use a similar wine)

 

[MoridinUK]

When you rack from your carboy to the bucket it should only remain in the bucket long enough for you to rinse and sanitize the carboy and then it should be racked back to the carboy and topped up. (Use a similar wine)

Top it up? well if I do it's going to take a good 4 litres to get back to 23 and thus fill a carboy, though I may have to buy one as both my vessels are fermentation buckets with different lids. I'd need 25 litres to get to the top of the smallest one of those.

I wasn't careful enough with my level of wine as the advice was against topping up in the kit but it seems the kit isn't trying to make a long lasting wine, they even suggest you can omit the preservative if you want to. Also I was so obsessed about sediment: that way I lost a significant amount of wine after both the primary and secondary stages, my siphon rod leaves a good 1/2 inch in the bottom of the tank. The sediment never seemed to be this high.

I may go find an inexpensive Shiraz to top it up with, it isn't a mist or summer wine, just a straight Shriaz.

 

[robie]

Save the sediment in a sealed glass container (as full as possible). Keep it about 70-75F if possible. Let it settle for a week or so and you will be able to siphon off and reclaim from 1 to 2 bottles. Use a 1.5 liter wine bottle, if you have nothing else. The clearer the bottle the better, so you can see where the sediment ends and the clear wine begins.

You really need to invest in some real carboys. Since you have lost so much wine to racking, maybe get at least one smaller, 5 gallon carboy and one 6 gallon. It is not uncommon that each time you rack, you rack into either a smaller container or into 2 separate containers. Whatever it takes to keep full containers. I have 6.5 gallon, 6 gallon, 5 gallon, and 3 gallon carboys I have purchased over the years. Having as few 1 gallon glass jugs is also very nice.

 

[MoridinUK]

Save the sediment in a sealed glass container (as full as possible). Keep it about 70-75F if possible. Let it settle for a week or so and you will be able to siphon off and reclaim from 1 to 2 bottles. Use a 1.5 liter wine bottle, if you have nothing else. The clearer the bottle the better, so you can see where the sediment ends and the clear wine begins.

You really need to invest in some real carboys. Since you have lost so much wine to racking, maybe get at least one smaller, 5 gallon carboy and one 6 gallon. It is not uncommon that each time you rack, you rack into either a smaller container or into 2 separate containers. Whatever it takes to keep full containers. I have 6.5 gallon, 6 gallon, 5 gallon, and 3 gallon carboys I have purchased over the years. Having as few 1 gallon glass jugs is also very nice.

i think you guys in the states are having an easier time, I can only find 23l carboys or 5l ones demijohns. I can find 15l and all sized buckets, but with the narrow neck I need... So I guess I could either get a 23l and top up A LOT or 4 5l ones and top up a little.

I'm using litres because although I could use Gallons all my equipment is in British on US gallons...

A 5 US gallon carboy would be magic but I can't find a 19l carboy on any of the UK home brew sites...

EDIT: so what's the best advice people? invest in a 23l PET carboy and top up 4L. or in several 5L Carboy's and airlocks and top up very little?

 

[robie]

Both! But if I had to choose, I would likely go with the 5L. That way you have several for future use and more flexibility. However, you will need an air lock for each one...

You can use almost any glass container for wine, as long as it is clean and sanitized, and can have an air lock attached. Sounds like you will need to improvise.

I know, this doesn't help much.

 

[MoridinUK]

Both! But if I had to choose, I would likely go with the 5L. That way you have several for future use and more flexibility. However, you will need an air lock for each one...

You can use almost any glass container for wine, as long as it is clean and sanitized, and can have an air lock attached. Sounds like you will need to improvise.

I know, this doesn't help much.

No no you've been very helpful. I have to love the internet, here I am in the UK getting help from you guys, thousands of miles away!

Thanks again, I'll get the 5's and let you know how it goes!