Vineyard From the Beginning- Grapeman

[rob]

Great thread Rich

I have a friend that started an entire 800 plant vineyard from cuttings that he picked up at a commercial vineyard. You might be surprised how many vineyards will let you take cuttings after they prune.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Thanks Rich!!

This is very informative for folks wanted to start a vineyard.

I know I will revert back to this someday when I plan mine....

 

[BARBQ]

Great thread Rich

I have a friend that started an entire 800 plant vineyard from cuttings that he picked up at a commercial vineyard. You might be surprised how many vineyards will let you take cuttings after they prune.

alot of people in texas have been doing this too. It seems like most of the blanc du bois can be traced back to one person bringing them from florida originally.

 

[mwestern]

We live somewhat close to Hermann and Augusta,Mo where alot of Mo,s wine are produced and these guys seem to be pretty tight lipped about their plants and anything else I've questioned the workers about ??? Never tried to get clippings but will next trip there.. Have you talked to anyone there about this subject Jon since you live in St.Louis ? Mike PS. Happy Easter All !! ;-)

 

[winemaker_3352]

We live somewhat close to Hermann and Augusta,Mo where alot of Mo,s wine are produced and these guys seem to be pretty tight lipped about their plants and anything else I've questioned the workers about ??? Never tried to get clippings but will next trip there.. Have you talked to anyone there about this subject Jon since you live in St.Louis ? Mike PS. Happy Easter All !! ;-)

No I haven't - the vineyard i go to sells their cuttings pretty cheap. They sell their grapes $.50 per # as well.

http://www.stfrancoisvineyard.com/

As far as the Herman area - I don't venture out that far too often - that is close to a 2 hour drive for me one way...

 

[mwestern]

Thanks Jon,We may make them a day trip sometime I printed off their catalog.The thought of .50# for grapes will definitely get us to check them out.Mike

 

[winemaker_3352]

Thanks Jon,We may make them a day trip sometime I printed off their catalog.The thought of .50# for grapes will definitely get us to check them out.Mike

Yeah - like most things - it will depend on quantity he has. Last year the heat and birds took some out.

 

[mwestern]

Yeah a friend of ours owns Yellow House Winery in Defiance,Mo which we highly recommend said the birds where so bad he had no FREE grapes for his customers to pick last season. We only have about 3 doz vines here at the house but no bird problems yet.... Mike

 

[grapeman]

I thought I would update the rooting process of the new vines. It has been cold the last couple of weeks so I have held off budbreak on the cuttings. They are swollen now and ready to pop in a few days with the expected warm sunny days expected now. First here is a picture of when I first set the cuttings in the trays after callousing. Then a second picture showing how the roots are growing.

 

[robie]

Do you generally have a good success rate concerning the percentage that actually do root?
Is it a different success rate from one varietal to another?

 

[grapeman]

It does vary a bit from variety to variety. Some certainly root more easily at at a higher percentage. There is no set percentage rate of rooting. It can vary depending on variety, how well the wood hardened off the previous year, any cold damage, rooting material used, and adequate callousing prior to sticking in the soil.

 

[Ernest T Bass]

Could you give us beginners more information on "when, where and how" on Bud Breaking and Adequate Callousing. I haven't done either and now afraid that my cuttings won't develope roots. Thanks for this great forum, we love it.
Semper Fi

 

[grapeman]

Grape hardwood cuttings need to develop callouses to form the roots from. It takes 10-14 days for them to form callouses at about 80 degrees F, more at lower temperatures. It is therefore advantageous to pre-callous them on some sort of heat source for a couple weeks prior to sticking them in the soil or pots. You can do it in the field if you can hold the buds from opening long enough. If the soil has warmed to 75 or so, you can set them right in the field and most should root. If the buds are opening when you plant them, then they are likely to open up the buds and start to form shoots before the cutting has any roots to take up water. What typically happens is the cutting begins to grow and people get excited. Then after a few days and the shoot growing a few inches and opening leaves, they die of thirst. This happens suddenly and the vine collapses.

What is desireable is to keep the tops cool while placing them on a heat mat in a few inches of warm soil. That forms the callouses and the small roots like I showed in the last picture. That way as the buds open, the roots can feed the newly formed shoots and the vine will sucessfully grow.

I will post some follow up pictures in a few days as it is warm enough that some of the cuttings are opening buds now and have roots formed.

 

[grapeman]

As promised, here is a picture a couple days later where the buds have started to open. The roots on a few have formed enough I can pull the plug out and get the soil with it.

 

[PCharles]

Grapeman, I'm sure enjoying this tread you started. I just took a moment to visit you web page. I was looking at some photos from your 2008 vineyard photos. Please forgive me for being a disruptive student by jumping ahead to another subject.

I noticed in the photo that you didn't have any grass growing between your rows. Recently I heard some vineyard owners discussing the importance of having the right kind of growth between rows to aid in moisture control. They were also discussing grass and weed control below the vines. The most supported method discussed there was the use of landscape fabric directly below the vines.

Again, it was the photo from your sight that motivated me to bring this up. Do you usually suppress grass between rows?

Thanks, PCharles

 

[grapeman]

The old site is on pure sand so the top foot can get dry in the summer heat. This is non-irrigated, so I kept the vineyard floor clean in the formative years. Under the rows was done with a hand hoe and between them with a small harrow. After those pictures, I seeded the middles and mow them. You can control excessivemoisture that way and draw off a bit of vigor if needed.

This new vineyard is on a much different soil and will receive completely different methods. I went over to it just last evening and will be killing the sod soon. I think I will plow it and till smooth. I had been considering just tilling wide enough for the rows, but it is a bit rough for mowing in the future. By killing the sod, I can even it out and seed it to the grass of my choice. There is also some horsetail that needs to be thinned out a bit. It should be a great vineyard site, but the very east side has some moisture in it - not bad, but it could be a bit wet in a wet year. The nice thing is I can place a drain tile at that end of the field to take care of it if needed. The land is rated as Prime Farmland and is a nice loam with good drainage.

The field is right next to my old favorite field on our farm for raising vegetables. Took many tons of tomatoes and corn, beans, cukes, etc off that field over the years.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Sounds like you have a great setup with land there.

Wish i had that kind of land to work with...

 

[GreginND]

Richard, could you give us an idea about how long one should plan to prepare a site for planting? For example, I will probably take possession of my new property in a couple of weeks. I thought about planting some vines this year (I have a source for some), but the more I think about it, the more I want to make sure the site is prepped well. I am thinking to kill off the site with roundup early, plow and till it well, seed it with a cover grass and install my trellis this year. Then it would be ready for planting first thing next spring. Pros and cons? I'm just looking for advice on how to approach it.

 

[grapeman]

Greg what you are describing is the best route to go. Also get a soil test so you can make any needed adjustments to the soil. I'm not a big fan of installing the trellis first. If you do that, the wires are in the way for planting and force you to do it by hand. I prefer to lay out the rows with marking flags. If I use an auger, I mark out with flags to get the rows straight and put an orange x where each vine will go. That ensures straight rows and properly spaced vines. Then after they are in, I install the trellis sometime within the next few months.

Don't look at everything I do as textbook way to do it. I tend to bend the rules and hope for the best (using sound logic and aquired knowledge). I will be planting this site this year in a hurry without a lot of prep. I do this because I know the field and it's history. I am also using untraditional planting methods as you will see in the next couple months.

 

[GreginND]

Thanks. Yes! A soil test is number one on my list. Number two will be to check the water quality. I have a rural water system to the house and a well for irrigation.

My thought was to put in the trellis posts first before the plants went in so that I could get bigger equipment in there to auger out holes without risking someone running over the vines. I think I will need to hire someone to come help me do that. I would probably wait to install the wires until after planting.