Thinking outside the box

LoneStarLori · Apr 1, 2014

Joe the Sangiovese is what got me hooked on tweaking. (I blame you, lol ) I followed your 'recipe' and LOVED it. Not only me, but my family and extended family as well. I started the kit last August and am down to only 5 bottles.

So it has occurred to me, I need to make wine at a faster rate. But to be honest, I can't afford to spend $150 on kits for all these lush's in the family. So for me it makes sense to buy a lessor expensive kit and make it taste like a $150 kit. Much like I did with the Sangiovese.

My two newest tweak projects arrived today. I haven't made either so these are blank canvas for me. I am not sure what I'm going to do with the white, but I have been sitting on a bag of black currants for a few months just waiting for the right red kit. I think the Mezza Luna Red will be perfect. It's a blend with strong cherry and dark fruit flavors and is inexpensive for a "big red" type kit. The Zante Currants are stronger than grapes so it will be interesting to see what kind of 'layer' they add to the finished wine.

I paid $140 for both of these kits including shipping. That's less than $3 a bottle and I hope I can make it taste like $10.

reefman · Apr 2, 2014

LoneStarLori said:
Joe the Sangiovese is what got me hooked on tweaking. (I blame you, lol ) I followed your 'recipe' and LOVED it. Not only me, but my family and extended family as well. I started the kit last August and am down to only 5 bottles.

Lori,
What tweaks did you do to the Sangiovese?
I agree with you, I'll buy the cheap kits and try tweaking them to make improvements. $150 for a kit is out of my price range.

Sorry, just found your tweaks post. Thanks!!!!
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index28.html#post466890

LoneStarLori · Apr 2, 2014

reefman said:
Lori,
What tweaks did you do to the Sangiovese?
I agree with you, I'll buy the cheap kits and try tweaking them to make improvements. $150 for a kit is out of my price range.

Sorry, just found your tweaks post. Thanks!!!!
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index28.html#post466890

Thanks for posting the link,. I bet you had to dig for that.

Keep us updated on your tweaks. I like to see how different things work for others.

kryptonitewine · Apr 2, 2014

My Sangiovese is aging. Not touching it till it hits a year.

Jim

LoneStarLori · Apr 2, 2014

kryptonitewine said:
My Sangiovese is aging. Not touching it till it hits a year.

Jim

Krypto, I admire your ability to resist. I wish I could do that.

But... don't you even want a hint of how it's coming along? It's killing me just knowing you have the same tweaks, just sleeping peacefully.

I'm going to have to bug you about this.

MONTHLY

kryptonitewine · Apr 2, 2014

Lol. I have to admit I have tasted now and then but it will not be bottled until September and then get some well deserved rest.

It Is very promising!!!

Jim

wildvines · Apr 2, 2014

For some reason I can't get my self to do a kit straight 100% by the kit's instructions. With the help of Joeswine I tweaked all my kits so far.

I follow the 5-20-40-110 for my kits. I may extend the to 180 days or more with bulk aging.

WE Eclipse Pinot Noir

I started this kit as instructed with primary fermentation with yeast RC-212. On day 6 the SG was .996 I transferred to secondary. I added a pound of Blackberries which I got fresh - I squished and froze them. I thawed The blackberries and placed them into the carboy and transferred from primary. I then added some Ft Rouge Soft tannin into secondary. 15 days later I racked off , cleared, and degassed. I let it clear for 20 days. Sg was .992 PH 3.7. Then I racked off to bulk age. Currently aging. ( might add quarter spiral during bulk aging will see depends on taste)

Right now nose shows red/black berries, nice tail of flavors,

WE Selection Cab/Merlot

I did almost the same thing with my Selection Cab/Merlot. as the Eclipse Pinot. The only thing different I did was place the blackberries in hops bag( was a pain to rack off when loose), and added FT Rouge tannin instead of Ft Rouge soft during secondary. Currently clearing. transferring to bulk on 3/17/2014. I Will add 1 French medium toast spiral during bulk aging. May add more if needed.

RJS WS Super Tuscan

For this Kit I switched the yeast from EC-1118 to BM 4x4. Currently this kit is in the primary on day5. Was going to transfer today but feel lazy so will transfer to secondary tomorrow. During primary I added the two jars or Merlot Skins into a hops bag, and added the untoasted oak( I think that's what it was) into a hops bag also and into the primary. I also added 1 tsp of FT Rouge to the primary. Started with an SG of 1.100. I added Go-ferm rehydrated with the BM 4x4 into primary. 6 hours after fermentation started I added the Fermaid. Every day I take an SG reading, squeeze the merlot skins bag and oak bag, punch down and stir. When the SG dropped 1/3 I added another dose of Fermaid. Currently the SG is 1.005. Like I said I will transfer to secondary tomorrow. My plan is to just add a half spiral of French medium toast into secondary. And plan on adding 1 spiral of French medium toast into the carboy during bulk aging.

These are my 3 current Kits that I tweaked. Up next is my WE LE Oregon Pinot Noir. So if anyone wants to throw ideas for this one please don't hesitate.

I do something's during primary. I tend to start fermentation at74 degrees then let it get to 80 degrees and then control it back to 74 then 72. I know it's weird but I notice I been getting a great fruit forward smell with a great mouthfeel.

So far I like my results and excited to see the finished product. These methods are not for everyone but I love to experiment. I do take a gamble that how I am.

LoneStarLori · Apr 3, 2014

Wow! When you do your tweaks, you do it first class, don't you? Not to mention those are some pretty high dollar kits in the first place.
When I do a kit, I hope to get a $10 bottle of wine out of it. You're going to get at least a $20 bottle. LOL

Seriously, they sound like some really well-thought-out and good tweaks.

Sent from my iPhone

ou8amaus · Apr 3, 2014

Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).

wildvines · Apr 3, 2014

LoneStarLori said:
Wow! When you do your tweaks, you do it first class, don't you? Not to mention those are some pretty high dollar kits in the first place.
When I do a kit, I hope to get a $10 bottle of wine out of it. You're going to get at least a $20 bottle. LOL

Seriously, they sound like some really well-thought-out and good tweaks.

Sent from my iPhone

Thanks Lori

Lol. Ya. I am on several cult wineries from napa etc so my expectations are high. It's more my wife. I can drink anything but her palate is seriously tight.

Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

kryptonitewine · Apr 3, 2014

ou8amaus said:
Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).

I think she added the raisins and tannin to the primary but later transferred to the secondary. There is a picture of the raisins in a carboy. I chose a different route and added the raisins and tannin to the secondary and racked on top of them, giving them a good stir half way to make certain the tannin was blended in.

Lori - please confirm.

joeswine · Apr 3, 2014

Sangiovese process with raisins

TWEAKING WINE KITS AND OR FRESH JUICE IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED,SO IF THAT'S YOU.. DO NOT DO THIS STEP,ARE YOU STILL THERE???OK THEN YOUR READY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX,ADDING RAISINS IN THE SECONDARY WORKS FOR ME, WHAT IT BRINGS TO THE TABLE IS A EXTRACTION OR AND INFUSION IF YOU WILL OF THE DRIED FRUIT RE HYDRATING AND THE EXTRACTION OF ITS ESSENCES ,THIS ADDS TO THE SMOOTH MOUTHFEEL AND OVERALL TEXTURE OF THE FINISH WINE IF LEFT TO AGE. :wy

PLACING THE RAISINS IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH WINE TANNINS (WHICH EVER YOU CHOSE)IS A MORE SIMPLIFIED WAY OF ADDING A TWIST TO WHAT WOULD BE A AVERAGE WINE . :wy

.............DO YOU SEE IN PICTURE ONE WHEN THE WINE IS DRAINED OFF WHAT YOU HAVE LEFT?THE FRUIT IS DONE ITS WORK WE CAN REAPPLY MORE TANNINS IN THE FUTURE IF WE DESIRE DEPENDING ON OUR TASTE REQUIREMENTS AND HOW THE WINE ITSELF IS DOING,LATTER WE WILL BOTTLE.................................................

LoneStarLori · Apr 3, 2014

ou8amaus said:
Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).

I had to go back and check my notes on this because even I was confused. This was only my second kit and CO2 was not in my vocabulary yet.

This batch got a double raisin treatment. (My fault for not paying attention to Joe's instructions.)
Near 1.0 is a little too far into fermentation to add the raisins so after I added them, I put a plastic lid on the primary with an airlock. After letting them sit a few more days, I transferred to a carboy @.994 and gave them a fresh dose of raisins as Joe recommended when I asked for help. I was trying to correct what I had done by not adding them when racking to secondary. The wine turned out great.

As far as raising the SG, so far I have not had that happen.

kryptonitewine · Apr 3, 2014

It will increase the SG as the raisins have sugar. I have know idea by how much. I would think nominal amounts.

Jim

joeswine · Apr 4, 2014

Adding to the mix

IF ANYTHING IT WILL PICK UP THE ABV.BY LESS THEN .5 % IN VOLUME SOMETHING TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT BUT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT OVER ALL, :wy

. THE BALANCE SHOULD BE THERE.

ou8amaus · Apr 4, 2014

LoneStarLori said:
This batch got a double raisin treatment.

I like the idea of starting primary with a loose cover and then just snapping down lid with an airlock for another week with additives after SG nears 1... Apart from increased body, do you feel the wine has any residual raisin flavor due to the double dose?

LoneStarLori · Apr 4, 2014

ou8amaus said:
.. Apart from increased body, do you feel the wine has any residual raisin flavor due to the double dose?

Good question. I have looked for a raisin 'note', but doesn't seem to have one that I or anyone else I have served noticed. Just a mouthful of smooth body.

This kit is only about $70. Right after it I did a Shiraz ALL Juice bucket from MM, $120. with no tweaks and it doesn't have nearly the complexity.

Raisin and other fruit tweaks may not be for everyone, and I know there are a lot of 'nay-sayers' out there, but it works for my tastebuds. Seems it works for all my family, extended family and friends too.

ou8amaus · Apr 4, 2014

LoneStarLori said:
Raisin and other fruit tweaks may not be for everyone, and I know there are a lot of 'nay-sayers' out there, but it works for my tastebuds

Could no agree with you more! Joe gave me a great recommendation once to add fresh plums to an ultra cheap cab I was making. The resulting wine was punching well above its weight class. I am now contemplating adding plums along with a homemade merlot must pack to a Cellar Classic Rosso Grande I got on sale recently. Add to that some med-toast oak and 2-3 TBS of tannin as you demonstrated in your pictures... Really psyched to see what this will become in a year+.

joeswine · Apr 4, 2014

Adding to the mix

THIS ISN'T FOR EVERYONE BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TASTING NOTES OF YOUR KIT OR JUICE SOMETHING,RIGHT?THEN LET THAT BE THE KEY AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT STARTING WHEN THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX,KEEPING IT INTERESTING AND FUN IS REALLY PART OF THE OVERALL GOAL BUT IT'S A CHANCE FOR YOU TO PUT YOUR THUMB PRINT ON YOUR WINE ,THEN YOU CAN CALL IT TRULY YOURS............................................

joeswine · Apr 7, 2014

Blackberry pino nior

blackberry PINO noir is a wine that I've made before and like it so much that when the opportunity was thereto do it again i didn't have to think twice,the combination of the fruit forwardness of the PINO and the brilliant depth of the blackberry are a combination that is outstanding together and time in a bottle does Justice to this blend,see how KATE and KITO AND I started with the mid grade kit and took it over the top,follow the process and see how we created the blackberry fpac in it's simplest of forms all the way to the finish product.

blackberry PINO noir :hb