Thinking outside the box
- Thread starter joeswine
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
Joe, I am working on a WE VInters reserve Angel Blanco. It's at .994 and I am racking to the secondary but not clearing yet. It came with dried Elder flowers which I used in the primary. I think they did a lovely job. I can taste some light citrus and the body so far is fine.
I am thinking of adding some grapefruit zest but am unclear on how to do it. Looking at your post #292 and #294, you speak of zesting and extracts. Can the zest be added directly or does it need to be done as a simple syrup? The zest is very bitter on its own and even a little acidic. This kit comes with some sweetener packs though I haven't tastes them to see if they have a favor addition.
Can you clarify how the process of works?
I am thinking of adding some grapefruit zest but am unclear on how to do it. Looking at your post #292 and #294, you speak of zesting and extracts. Can the zest be added directly or does it need to be done as a simple syrup? The zest is very bitter on its own and even a little acidic. This kit comes with some sweetener packs though I haven't tastes them to see if they have a favor addition.
Can you clarify how the process of works?
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,705
- Reaction score
- 2,715
Zesting
I USED THE PICTURES THAT I HAVE AS TO SHOW YOU WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN ZESTED AND HOW IT SHOULD LOOK ONCE IT HAS SETTLED OUT AND GIVE UP IT'S ESSENCE TO THE WINE.
THIS IS ALL DONE AS A RAW PRODUCT ,NOTHING ELSE ADDED,ZEST AND NOTHING ELSE,UNDERSTAND?
I KNOW WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS STATE BUT YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF PLACING THEM IN THE SECONDARY,I HAVE DONE A CHARDENAY WITH DRIED ELDERBERRY FLOWERS IT WAS WONDERFUL,A TRUE TASTING DE -LITE,REMEMBER THIS ,YOU FIRST HAVE TO HAVE A BASE WINE ,ONCE THAT IS COMPLETED AND NOT YET STILL ,GOING INTO THE SECONDARY IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE PLACE TO PUT YOUR FLAVOR ADDITIVES,THAT,S WERE THE BASE IS THE BASE AND THE ART WORK TAKES PLACE...UNDERSTAND?
HOW OLD IS THIS WINE? IF YOU WANT TO FINISH THE WINE OUT FIRST ,TASTE IT STILL UNBOTTLED BUT CLEAR IF THEN YOU WANT TO ADD THE ZEST, YOU STILL CAN IT WILL JUST TAKE A LITTLE MORE WORK ON YOUR PART. BUT THE OUTCOME WILL BE WORTH WAITING FOR.....YOURS JP.............
I USED THE PICTURES THAT I HAVE AS TO SHOW YOU WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN ZESTED AND HOW IT SHOULD LOOK ONCE IT HAS SETTLED OUT AND GIVE UP IT'S ESSENCE TO THE WINE.
THIS IS ALL DONE AS A RAW PRODUCT ,NOTHING ELSE ADDED,ZEST AND NOTHING ELSE,UNDERSTAND?
I KNOW WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS STATE BUT YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF PLACING THEM IN THE SECONDARY,I HAVE DONE A CHARDENAY WITH DRIED ELDERBERRY FLOWERS IT WAS WONDERFUL,A TRUE TASTING DE -LITE,REMEMBER THIS ,YOU FIRST HAVE TO HAVE A BASE WINE ,ONCE THAT IS COMPLETED AND NOT YET STILL ,GOING INTO THE SECONDARY IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE PLACE TO PUT YOUR FLAVOR ADDITIVES,THAT,S WERE THE BASE IS THE BASE AND THE ART WORK TAKES PLACE...UNDERSTAND?
HOW OLD IS THIS WINE? IF YOU WANT TO FINISH THE WINE OUT FIRST ,TASTE IT STILL UNBOTTLED BUT CLEAR IF THEN YOU WANT TO ADD THE ZEST, YOU STILL CAN IT WILL JUST TAKE A LITTLE MORE WORK ON YOUR PART. BUT THE OUTCOME WILL BE WORTH WAITING FOR.....YOURS JP.............
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
This batch is still very new. I just started it a week ago. It was down to .994 today so I racked to secondary. It's not done yet because it's still bubbling away.
I just wanted to be ready when and if I decided to add zest. I think I might on the next racking but I want it to settle down first so I can see where we are going with it. As of now, i's very good. Nice and citrusy.
I just wanted to be ready when and if I decided to add zest. I think I might on the next racking but I want it to settle down first so I can see where we are going with it. As of now, i's very good. Nice and citrusy.
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
Shiraz/Viognier update
It's been 3 weeks now since I started clearing the wine so here's a quick recap on my Shiraz/Viognier LE kit.
The kit was started 1-9-2014. I was excited to get my first LE kit and it came with dried grape skins. Bonus!
Here are all the ingredients that came with the kit:
The kit also came with two bags of oak which made a nice mess at first racking. A little cheesecloth took care of keeping the oak splinters out of the racking cane.
While transferring to secondary I did not add any of the chems at this time because I didn't feel it's quite done. (maybe I just didn't want it to be) I also was not 100% sure I was in love with the flavor. It seemed to be lacking body and was pretty dry. This may improve with age, but then again...it may not.
I let it sit a few days and the SG stayed the same at .997. After thinking a while on the taste and mouth feel, I decided it might be time to do a tweak to try and see of I could bring the body up a bit and maybe the sweetness. I have to admit, I was a little reluctant to mess with a limited edition kit, but in the end, I will be drinking this wine so if I can improve it to MY taste, I will give it my best.
I chose to use cherries to play off the characteristics of the Shiraz. Plums would have worked well but they are not in season and I wanted something fresh. I bought a pound of sweet dark cherries. I only bought 1 pound because although I am trying to improve the dryness and body, I am not trying to completely change the wines profile. I pitted then froze them overnight to help break them down before I added them to the carboy.
This is when I took out the cherries and added clearing agents:
So here I am about 6 weeks after starting. It has been clearing for almost a month. Today I was going to rack for the last time before bottling. There is just a tiny bit of sediment but I like to get it as clear as possible before bottling so I always rack at least one more time before bottling.
Although it looks good, I did a taste test I have a small problem. For my taste, it is still a little dry. I can taste the oak and lots of dark fruit and it has nice body. (Score! The cherries worked). However, it is still not quite what I want. This is young, but I don't have hopes for it becoming sweeter with age so I need to decide whether to back sweeten or not.
I am going to sorbate it now in case I decide to do this. I left out the sorbate intentionally earlier. If I don't HAVE to have it, I would rather leave it out. I don't have to decide if I'm going to back sweeten just yet, but if I choose to, the wine will be ready. This wine isn't going anywhere while I let it rest.
This is great example of how different one 5 gal carboy can be a different than the next. It fit in the other one without a smaller container needed.
While I let it age a little more, I thought I should at least have it looking stylish if it's going to be hanging around the kitchen. Old t shirts are a great way to keep the light out while it snoozes.
As Joewines would say, "Stay tooned". This is going to be a great wine in the end.
If you would like to see this from the beginning, here are the links to the earlier entries.
The beginning, part one
First racking, adding a tweak
Removing cherries and clearing
It's been 3 weeks now since I started clearing the wine so here's a quick recap on my Shiraz/Viognier LE kit.
The kit was started 1-9-2014. I was excited to get my first LE kit and it came with dried grape skins. Bonus!
Here are all the ingredients that came with the kit:
The kit also came with two bags of oak which made a nice mess at first racking. A little cheesecloth took care of keeping the oak splinters out of the racking cane.
While transferring to secondary I did not add any of the chems at this time because I didn't feel it's quite done. (maybe I just didn't want it to be) I also was not 100% sure I was in love with the flavor. It seemed to be lacking body and was pretty dry. This may improve with age, but then again...it may not.
I let it sit a few days and the SG stayed the same at .997. After thinking a while on the taste and mouth feel, I decided it might be time to do a tweak to try and see of I could bring the body up a bit and maybe the sweetness. I have to admit, I was a little reluctant to mess with a limited edition kit, but in the end, I will be drinking this wine so if I can improve it to MY taste, I will give it my best.
I chose to use cherries to play off the characteristics of the Shiraz. Plums would have worked well but they are not in season and I wanted something fresh. I bought a pound of sweet dark cherries. I only bought 1 pound because although I am trying to improve the dryness and body, I am not trying to completely change the wines profile. I pitted then froze them overnight to help break them down before I added them to the carboy.
This is when I took out the cherries and added clearing agents:
So here I am about 6 weeks after starting. It has been clearing for almost a month. Today I was going to rack for the last time before bottling. There is just a tiny bit of sediment but I like to get it as clear as possible before bottling so I always rack at least one more time before bottling.
Although it looks good, I did a taste test I have a small problem. For my taste, it is still a little dry. I can taste the oak and lots of dark fruit and it has nice body. (Score! The cherries worked). However, it is still not quite what I want. This is young, but I don't have hopes for it becoming sweeter with age so I need to decide whether to back sweeten or not.
I am going to sorbate it now in case I decide to do this. I left out the sorbate intentionally earlier. If I don't HAVE to have it, I would rather leave it out. I don't have to decide if I'm going to back sweeten just yet, but if I choose to, the wine will be ready. This wine isn't going anywhere while I let it rest.
This is great example of how different one 5 gal carboy can be a different than the next. It fit in the other one without a smaller container needed.
While I let it age a little more, I thought I should at least have it looking stylish if it's going to be hanging around the kitchen. Old t shirts are a great way to keep the light out while it snoozes.
As Joewines would say, "Stay tooned". This is going to be a great wine in the end.
If you would like to see this from the beginning, here are the links to the earlier entries.
The beginning, part one
First racking, adding a tweak
Removing cherries and clearing
Last edited:
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
That last pic may have spoiled your wine
Oh contrar. It's ensuring the wine develops a deep purple color, and the ability to win gold in a competition.
Not to mention the fine art of partying and tailgating.
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
Thanks ya'll. They take a little bit of time to put together, but I'm hoping the illustrations might help others that may not ever have done tweaking understand the process. I'm a visual learner and Im sure I'm not the only one.
DavidvBrady
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
- Messages
- 33
- Reaction score
- 0
Has anyone ever tried adding rosemary to their wine. It's quite a strong flavour but I think it would go nice if a correct amount was added.
This may be a big no no, just wondering. I've just begun first very batch so won't be tailoring until I've had a few under my belt.
Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making
This may be a big no no, just wondering. I've just begun first very batch so won't be tailoring until I've had a few under my belt.
Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
David, I have not personally done it. You are right in that it is a very strong flavor so I'm not sure I would care for it in a drinking wine. However, you have sparked my interest though. I may just add a sprig to a bottle of red to see how it works as a cooking wine. Use it in a pasta sauce. Mmmmmm!
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
Riche treatment for the Shiraz Viognier
I am at seven weeks on this Cru Select Shiraz Viognier wine making kit. According to the instructions I should be bottling by now. But, I am not loving it so here comes the tweak. (AKA Thinking outside the box.) It came with a dried grape skin pack that contained stems and seeds that needed to be rehydrated. Also 2 different packs of oak chips. Since it came with lots of goodies, I didn't add anything because I wanted to see how it would play out. Therefore, I have stuck to the instructions on this kit. Until now.
Here's my plan. I'm going to use a finishing tannin called Tannin Riche. It is designed to be used after fermentation and prior to bottling. It is recommended to be aged at least 3 weeks prior to bottling. Next week is Fat Tuesday/Mardi Gras. Easter is always 6 weeks after Mardi Gras. If all goes well, I will bottle this on Easter weekend when all 3 of my daughters are here to help. They are big wine drinkers and are more than happy to have Mom keep them well supplied so I'm going to make them work for this batch. It will be fun to do this as a family and I think they will love it.
Manufacturers description:
Tannin Riche is a cellaring and finishing tannin notable for enhancing complexity. Derived from 100% toasted French oak, Tannin Riche imparts hints of coconut and vanilla together with a perception of sweet*ness. It can contribute the final touch to your wine.
I think that is just what this wine needs. Especially the vanilla. I realize it's young, but the wine is very thin and I am having trouble picking up anything but grapes and maybe a little pepper. It is off dry, which is good, but not quite sweet enough for my taste. Sweetness may come through with more aging, but I want to give it a boost with the Tannin Riche.
First thing I did was rack it to a 6 gal carboy, for two reasons. 1; to get to off the remaining lees and 2; to have room to mix and stir well. I will wash the carboy and put it all back in the 5 gal when I am done.
Then I mixed 1 TBL of the Tannin Riche in 1/4 spring water. It smells and looks a little like coffee. Unlike a regular generic tannin, this one tastes smooth and rich(e). Yes, I tasted it. If I'm going to put this in my wine, I want to make sure it is not horrible.
Next step I added 1/4 tsp K-meta. This is an additional racking the instructions didn't call for and it will be aged a bit in the carboy so I want to be sure it's safe from micro cooties.
After this, I put it all back where it came from in the 5 gal carboy. Fresh airlock and a nice dark shirt over the carboy to keep it sedated while it ages and the tannins do their magic.
There are several other installments if you will of this this kit being made. You can see them here:
New Kit! Spangnols RQ Shiraz Viognier
On to phase 2 of the RQ-Australia Shiraz Viognier
Update time on the Shiraz/Viognier
Shiraz/Viognier update 2-20-14
I am at seven weeks on this Cru Select Shiraz Viognier wine making kit. According to the instructions I should be bottling by now. But, I am not loving it so here comes the tweak. (AKA Thinking outside the box.) It came with a dried grape skin pack that contained stems and seeds that needed to be rehydrated. Also 2 different packs of oak chips. Since it came with lots of goodies, I didn't add anything because I wanted to see how it would play out. Therefore, I have stuck to the instructions on this kit. Until now.
Here's my plan. I'm going to use a finishing tannin called Tannin Riche. It is designed to be used after fermentation and prior to bottling. It is recommended to be aged at least 3 weeks prior to bottling. Next week is Fat Tuesday/Mardi Gras. Easter is always 6 weeks after Mardi Gras. If all goes well, I will bottle this on Easter weekend when all 3 of my daughters are here to help. They are big wine drinkers and are more than happy to have Mom keep them well supplied so I'm going to make them work for this batch. It will be fun to do this as a family and I think they will love it.
Manufacturers description:
Tannin Riche is a cellaring and finishing tannin notable for enhancing complexity. Derived from 100% toasted French oak, Tannin Riche imparts hints of coconut and vanilla together with a perception of sweet*ness. It can contribute the final touch to your wine.
I think that is just what this wine needs. Especially the vanilla. I realize it's young, but the wine is very thin and I am having trouble picking up anything but grapes and maybe a little pepper. It is off dry, which is good, but not quite sweet enough for my taste. Sweetness may come through with more aging, but I want to give it a boost with the Tannin Riche.
First thing I did was rack it to a 6 gal carboy, for two reasons. 1; to get to off the remaining lees and 2; to have room to mix and stir well. I will wash the carboy and put it all back in the 5 gal when I am done.
Then I mixed 1 TBL of the Tannin Riche in 1/4 spring water. It smells and looks a little like coffee. Unlike a regular generic tannin, this one tastes smooth and rich(e). Yes, I tasted it. If I'm going to put this in my wine, I want to make sure it is not horrible.
Next step I added 1/4 tsp K-meta. This is an additional racking the instructions didn't call for and it will be aged a bit in the carboy so I want to be sure it's safe from micro cooties.
After this, I put it all back where it came from in the 5 gal carboy. Fresh airlock and a nice dark shirt over the carboy to keep it sedated while it ages and the tannins do their magic.
There are several other installments if you will of this this kit being made. You can see them here:
New Kit! Spangnols RQ Shiraz Viognier
On to phase 2 of the RQ-Australia Shiraz Viognier
Update time on the Shiraz/Viognier
Shiraz/Viognier update 2-20-14
Putterrr
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 882
- Reaction score
- 205
I enjoy your threads Lori but might it be easier for others to find if your start a separate thread for each and put them in the Kit Winemaking section
Also these grape skin kits tend to drop sediment for a many months so bottling early may lead to settling in the bottle. Perhaps filtering will help
cheers
Also these grape skin kits tend to drop sediment for a many months so bottling early may lead to settling in the bottle. Perhaps filtering will help
cheers
Last edited:
LoneStarLori
Veteran wino, newbie vintner
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 565
This thread was renamed to "thinking outside the box" by Joe specifically for tweaking kits. Hopefully it will set it apart from making a kit by the book.
This thread has a new home under kit winemaking/thinking outside the box. (thanks Julie!)Thanks for the heads up on the grape skins.I've never used them before.
My Shiraz/Viognier is still bulk aging. I see its dropping a tiny amount of sediment, but it's so dark I can't really tell if it's done dropping. I plan to bottle Easter weekend so maybe I'll rack it again today or tomorrow to check the sediment volume.
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,705
- Reaction score
- 2,715
Amarone moving forward
This mix is not for everyone but it works for me.....lets continue,part of the amarone base is made up of dried grapes (raisins ) in a trio-dimensional wine base or what is of quality in the valpolicella area of Italy,made and aged for at least 5 years under strick guidelines this wine comes out with a taste profile all it's own, amarone is the term used to describe (bitter wine)...............................
I PREFERRED TO USE SPRING WATER WHEN EVER I CAN JUST A S A PRECAUTION NOT TO HAVE ANY OFF TASTINGS ADDED INTROVERT LY,SUNMAID RAISINS AS ALWAYS IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH A LARGE AMOUNT OF WINE TANNINS,MINE CAN FROM LD CARLSON SO THERE SHOULD BE NO PROBLEMS THERE..............FOLLOW..................
............IF YOU FOLLOW THIS THREAD YOU WILL SEE THAT IN THE END THIS WINE WILL HAVE A DEEP TEXTURE AND A ROBUST TASTE PROFILE...................................................................FOLLOW...............
This mix is not for everyone but it works for me.....lets continue,part of the amarone base is made up of dried grapes (raisins ) in a trio-dimensional wine base or what is of quality in the valpolicella area of Italy,made and aged for at least 5 years under strick guidelines this wine comes out with a taste profile all it's own, amarone is the term used to describe (bitter wine)...............................
I PREFERRED TO USE SPRING WATER WHEN EVER I CAN JUST A S A PRECAUTION NOT TO HAVE ANY OFF TASTINGS ADDED INTROVERT LY,SUNMAID RAISINS AS ALWAYS IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH A LARGE AMOUNT OF WINE TANNINS,MINE CAN FROM LD CARLSON SO THERE SHOULD BE NO PROBLEMS THERE..............FOLLOW..................
............IF YOU FOLLOW THIS THREAD YOU WILL SEE THAT IN THE END THIS WINE WILL HAVE A DEEP TEXTURE AND A ROBUST TASTE PROFILE...................................................................FOLLOW...............
Last edited:
joeswine
joeswine
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 8,705
- Reaction score
- 2,715
Amarone phase 2
TAKE NOTICE THE RAISINS WILL BE APPLIED INTO THE SECONDARY,MY THEORY IS THIS:I HAVE PRIMED AND ALMOST COMPLETED MY BASE WINE,THE NEXT STEP IS TO INFUSE THE RAISINS
TO THE MIX THAT IS DONE IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH 2 TO 4 TABLESPOONS OF WINE TANNINS,I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT TO SOME BUT IT WILL REDUCE ITSELF IN THE AGING PROCESS..........
...FOLLOW............
LEARN TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. THINGS TO NOTICE (SEE THE HANGING TAGES ALL THE DATA IS THERE FOR RECALL)TO INSURE EHAT THE NEXT PF=HASE SHOULD BE.............................PLANNING AND CONTROL IT'S ALL YOURS NOT THE WINES.........
NOW WE WAIT.......
TAKE NOTICE THE RAISINS WILL BE APPLIED INTO THE SECONDARY,MY THEORY IS THIS:I HAVE PRIMED AND ALMOST COMPLETED MY BASE WINE,THE NEXT STEP IS TO INFUSE THE RAISINS
TO THE MIX THAT IS DONE IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH 2 TO 4 TABLESPOONS OF WINE TANNINS,I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT TO SOME BUT IT WILL REDUCE ITSELF IN THE AGING PROCESS..........
...FOLLOW............ LEARN TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. THINGS TO NOTICE (SEE THE HANGING TAGES ALL THE DATA IS THERE FOR RECALL)TO INSURE EHAT THE NEXT PF=HASE SHOULD BE.............................PLANNING AND CONTROL IT'S ALL YOURS NOT THE WINES.........
NOW WE WAIT.......
Last edited:
Similar threads
