Source for ingredients?

[Imp81318]

I am currently a fairly new homebrewer that is entertaining the idea of starting to make some wine as well. Neither my wife nor I drink a ton of wine, so I'd like to start out making small batches - maybe a gallon or two. I have basically all of the equipment that I'll need, with the exception of a corker for bottling, and I may end up bottling at least some of it in beer bottles (unless there is a good reason not to) anyway to make it more "single-serving" size since we like very different kinds of wine...

Anyway, on to my point - we like traditional types of wines - chianti, pinot grigio, pinot noir, etc. I know that there are kits available, but the selection for types of wines is much larger if you're doing bigger batches. Plus, as you buy smaller kits the price per bottle increases. Are there any good sources available to buy juice made from different types of grapes, or else the grapes themselves to use as a starting point so I could scale recipes to whatever size I wanted to me? My local homebrew supply shop has all of the other ingredients I'll need - oak chips, brewer's clay, etc.

 

[richmke]

You don't say where you are located. That might help direct you to places where you get get less than 6 gallon kits.

There are some 1 gallon kits available. But, as you mentioned, the price per bottle goes way up. Also, those kits are mid-range, at best.

Unlike Beer, wine keeps forever. Also, it takes almost forever until it peaks. So, if you make a 6 gallon batch now, you will have 27 bottles in 2 years that will take you a few more years to finish.

Try a local wine club. They usually buy fresh grapes in bulk. Someone might be willing to sell you a few pounds of grapes so you can make a 1 gallon batch.

 

[Imp81318]

You don't say where you are located. That might help direct you to places where you get get less than 6 gallon kits.

There are some 1 gallon kits available. But, as you mentioned, the price per bottle goes way up. Also, those kits are mid-range, at best.

Unlike Beer, wine keeps forever. Also, it takes almost forever until it peaks. So, if you make a 6 gallon batch now, you will have 27 bottles in 2 years that will take you a few more years to finish.

Try a local wine club. They usually buy fresh grapes in bulk. Someone might be willing to sell you a few pounds of grapes so you can make a 1 gallon batch.

My apologies, I am located in central PA, near Harrisburg. As I said, my local homebrew supply store, Scotzin Bros., has about 6 varieties available in 1-gallon kits. I was unaware that the 1-gallon kits aren't as good as the larger kits.

I just really don't like the idea of shelling out $160 for a batch of wine at a time, especially when that quantity of wine would probably last us several years and I'd rather be able to have some variety over that long period of time. Perhaps I'm better off just continuing to buy wine and sticking to making my own beer.

 

[Runningwolf]

You can buy mid-range kits for far less than $160. When you figure the price per bottle, it's not so bad. You end up with 30 bottles per six gallon kit. If you buy a white wine like Pinot Gris, you could be drinking it in a year. A good red usually starts coming around at 18 months and might not peak for 24-36 months depending on the wine. You do get what you pay for. Making a six gallon batch can be more forgiving than a one gallon batch.

 

[jgmann67]

Play your cards right, and you can buy top of the line kits for a lot less than $160.

I like Scotzin Bros. I've known Tom for many years. But, I'd never buy a kit from them. Their prices are ridiculously high. Buy your carboys, cleaning supplies, oak and bottling supplies there. But, unless you can get them to be more competitive w their pricing, go to one of the forum sponsors.

Label Peelers is my personal favorite.

 

[ceeaton]

+1 to what @jgmann67 said. We are lucky to have a place like Scotzin bros. in our area. They have everything you need for beer and wine making, but you can get some of the raw ingredients (kits/grains etc) cheaper from other sources.

I love Labelpeelers since I can order a kit and get it the next day, unless there is a snowstorm or something, but that rarely happens. There are also lot's of local vineyards in our area that will sell you grapes. I know of one on the east shore, a couple up past Duncannon, one in Carlisle off the Holly pike and one down in Spring Grove, where I sourced my grapes this fall. At the one in Spring Grove you can buy the grapes by the pound, and if it's a white grape he will crush/destem and press for a vary reasonable fee, or if they are red he'll crush and destem (I think like .20 a pound?).

There is also Harford Vineyards near Jarrettsville MD (just down I-83) that have Chilean grapes and juice in the spring, and California and Italian grapes and juice in the fall. The juice buckets are 6 gallons, but you can get lugs of grapes (18 lbs from Chile or 36 lbs from California). It usually takes 75+ lbs of grapes to make 6 gallons, so a single lug would be a much smaller quantity. (I think it is usually around 1 gallon of finished wine for 15 or so lbs).

Anyway, just check around and you might be surprised what you find. I just started making wine last year (have home brewed for over 20 yrs) and have found no issues finding ingredients in our area.

Welcome to WMT!

 

[Imp81318]

Thabjs for the welcome, all!

I just checked on Label Peelers, and their price for the Eclipse series wine kits, which is what I was quoting for $160 at Scotzin is within a dollar or two of that price, and that doesn't include any shipping costs.

That said though, how did you find local places to buy grapes or grape juice? Did you just call the wineries and ask or do they indicate it on their website?

 

[Arne]

Also, spring is just around the corner. Soon there will be fresh fruits around. 10 lbs of fruit and you can make a fruit wine. (Amounts vary with different fruits.) You can start out now with a skeeter pee (lemon wine) or dragons blood (a mix of fruits). The recipes are on this site. Anyway, they are both fairly cheap to start with. They will give you a chance to learn the basics without spending a lot of money. Arne.

 

[DoctorCAD]

One other issue, making 6 gallons of wine is no more work than making 1 gallon of wine.

Why not just get a 6 gallon kit and start there. Not like its going to go to waste. If you can't drink 30 bottles of wine in 3 or 4 years, this might be a waste of time.

A $80 kit will teach you how to make wine so that when you get a $160 kit, you wont be throwing that money away.

 

[hardworkin]

Here's another 'Thumbs Up' for Scotzin Bros. I have only ever bought 2 kits from them, so I cannot speak on their prices on kits, but pretty much everything else has a decent price compared to other local supply shops that I have been to.

 

[jgmann67]

Thabjs for the welcome, all!

I just checked on Label Peelers, and their price for the Eclipse series wine kits, which is what I was quoting for $160 at Scotzin is within a dollar or two of that price, and that doesn't include any shipping costs.

That said though, how did you find local places to buy grapes or grape juice? Did you just call the wineries and ask or do they indicate it on their website?

Go to labelpeelers, select your kit and put it in your cart and look at the price. Shipping is about $15 and you'll get it in about 2 days.

 

[ceeaton]

Thabjs for the welcome, all!

I just checked on Label Peelers, and their price for the Eclipse series wine kits, which is what I was quoting for $160 at Scotzin is within a dollar or two of that price, and that doesn't include any shipping costs.

That said though, how did you find local places to buy grapes or grape juice? Did you just call the wineries and ask or do they indicate it on their website?

When it comes around to harvest time, many of the local vineyards that sell grapes will post their contact information and prices behind the checkout area at Scotzins. Some of them also have websites, just do a search for things like "grapes for sale in PA" or something else along those lines.

+1 with jgmann67, you need to add that kit to your cart to see the true labelpeelers price. It will amaze you. Also, most of the 18L kits cost around $20 to ship to our area, the less the Litres the lower the price. The more you order the lower the price per kit goes as far as the shipping goes.

 

[Imp81318]

Thanks all for the great feedback. To clarify just a but, my wife and I might drink 24-30 bottles of wine in 3 years or so, but I don't love the idea of only having 1 variety of wine for the next 3 years. I'd much rather make multiple small batches and have a variety on-hand at all times. Plus I enjoy the process and would like to make the wine more often than every few years as well.

Another question regarding the kits: While at Scotzin the other day a guy was buying one of the kits, so I started talking to him and the guy working about them. The customer said he only does whites, but that they're ready in 6 weeks. The worker said the kits say 6 weeks, and they're all drinkable in that time but they'll improve a be better to best around 6 months to a year typically. Everyone on here seems to be saying to age for at least a year. Why?

 

[NorCal]

I made a 1 gallon batch of Petite Verdot this year from grapes, so that I would have to blend with my barrels that I'm making. I had a neighbor that was nice enough to save 3 or 4 vines for me, and I harvested, de stemmed by hand. It was quite a bit of work and inefficient (lbs vs net wine and hours per net wine) for the 1 gallon, but I got what I was after. I started with about 30 lbs of grapes for the post racking 1 gallon net vs the 15-16 that it takes when I use my machinery. Cost per pound of grapes is around $1 lb, so I'm about $6 of grapes per bottle on my 1 gallon project. I think this may be why people are steering you toward a bigger batch. Perhaps finding a friend(s) to split the batch with?

 

[jgmann67]

Another question regarding the kits: While at Scotzin the other day a guy was buying one of the kits, so I started talking to him and the guy working about them. The customer said he only does whites, but that they're ready in 6 weeks. The worker said the kits say 6 weeks, and they're all drinkable in that time but they'll improve a be better to best around 6 months to a year typically. Everyone on here seems to be saying to age for at least a year. Why?

Kit wine, like wine made directly from the vine, needs time. There's a lot of chemistry going on all at once. The cheaper kits will mature faster than the higher end kits - in 3 to 6 months, that's about as good as they're going to get. While the higher end kits take more time to mature and reach a higher plateau of quality.

For my Selections, LE's and Eclipses, it seems to work out that the whites will be very good between 9 months; while the reds will really start getting good at the 1 year mark, and improve gradually over time. I can't tell you where the 'high water mark' is for these kits because I've only been doing this about 15 months. But, I'm told I won't see the high point for at least a year for the whites and at least 18 months for the reds.

 

[richmke]

To clarify just a but, my wife and I might drink 24-30 bottles of wine in 3 years or so

Once you have them done, they make a cheap gift to give away or bring to a party.