Angell Wine
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2005
- Messages
- 553
- Reaction score
- 4
I'm a redneck and a Texan. If the wine gives you a buzz, Then it's good wine.
WineXpert So, here’s the basis of my skepticism....
- Thread starter rexmor
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Dean
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 1,593
- Reaction score
- 7
winesnob said:
Awesome tip! I'm off to Boston this afternoon for a week of Microsoft nerdy goodness, and I'll have to see if I can get a car and check out this place! Of course getting the wines back into Canada might be somewhat of a problem
peterCooper
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2005
- Messages
- 966
- Reaction score
- 0
This whole thread is really revolving around one question: Why are you
making wine? And it is a really important question.
Approach it from a cost benefit point of view. What do you get out of
making wine? If your only answer is "a $50 bottle of wine for less than
$10" then you are probably missing the point.
If you get a sense of satisfaction out of making something that you can
be proud of, then what value do you place on that?
If you get a positive response from your friends when you share a bottle
of your wine with them, what value do you place on that?
Wine pricing has nothing to do with quality, it is a function of market
forces (oh no, I'm on a rant). If someone will pay $50 for a bottle, that's
what it's worth. Those forces are blind in wine until after the fact. You
don't know how good the wine is until you have already bought it. You
can send a bottle back if it is corked. But if it just doesn't meet
expectations you are stuck.
making wine? And it is a really important question.
Approach it from a cost benefit point of view. What do you get out of
making wine? If your only answer is "a $50 bottle of wine for less than
$10" then you are probably missing the point.
If you get a sense of satisfaction out of making something that you can
be proud of, then what value do you place on that?
If you get a positive response from your friends when you share a bottle
of your wine with them, what value do you place on that?
Wine pricing has nothing to do with quality, it is a function of market
forces (oh no, I'm on a rant). If someone will pay $50 for a bottle, that's
what it's worth. Those forces are blind in wine until after the fact. You
don't know how good the wine is until you have already bought it. You
can send a bottle back if it is corked. But if it just doesn't meet
expectations you are stuck.
OK, at the risk of really becoming unpopular here [it's probably too late for that concern], I'd ask whetherpreparing wine kits is REALLY making wine, in the sense of something you shouldtake any pride in?I've had any number of responses to my posts saying[in essence] "just follow the instructions, and the winewill be really good". Would anyone feel any particular pride in making a Betty Crocker Cake mix which turned out as expected? [I don't make them, but my wife tells me she doesn't.] So,whywould anyone feel any particular pride in following kit instructions andgetting the productthe manufacturer designed?
If these kits do, indeed,turn out a wine that I like to drink, which would cost me more money if I bought it at retail, I'm happy.If not, I'm not.From my point of view, this isbasically a "cake mix" deal.
Edited by: rexmor
If these kits do, indeed,turn out a wine that I like to drink, which would cost me more money if I bought it at retail, I'm happy.If not, I'm not.From my point of view, this isbasically a "cake mix" deal.
Edited by: rexmor
Actually, your cake mix referece is apt. I work in the food industry, and
General Mills has done extensive research into this. There's a bit of a tug
of war between today's push for convenience as well as the desire to
'cook from scratch'. the mixes are designed such that both desires are
fulfilled - you can do them quickly, get a very high quality result, and
you're still cracking the eggs yourself and doing all the mixing, so it very
much satisfies the need for the scratch cooker, whether or not they
consciously recognize it.
Granted, they're not going to meet the needs of 100% - you'll likely not
find pastry chefs doing this, but then again pastry chef's aren't the target
demographic, and they represent a very small portion of the population.
At the end of the day, if you do it, it's because you find it interesting,
relaxing, and/or you're satisfied with the outcome. If you're a purist
you'll spend a few million on land in california, plant your own grapes,
attend a viticulture series at UC Davis, and the rest of your life learning
how to do it all on your own. The beauty of the kit options is that you
don't have to do that, and (apparently - mine aren't done yet), can achieve
comparable results, while keeping your day job.
I'm a bit of a skeptic myself - my advice to you is to find a local brew
group and offer to trade something for a taste of one of their high end,
aged, appropriately made kit wines. That'll give you a feel for if you want
to spend money to enter this hobby, as you'll be able to guage the
outcome of a well done product yourself. I understand there's a home
wine expo in baltimore this august as well, and have been encouraged to
attend - you may wish to consider that.
General Mills has done extensive research into this. There's a bit of a tug
of war between today's push for convenience as well as the desire to
'cook from scratch'. the mixes are designed such that both desires are
fulfilled - you can do them quickly, get a very high quality result, and
you're still cracking the eggs yourself and doing all the mixing, so it very
much satisfies the need for the scratch cooker, whether or not they
consciously recognize it.
Granted, they're not going to meet the needs of 100% - you'll likely not
find pastry chefs doing this, but then again pastry chef's aren't the target
demographic, and they represent a very small portion of the population.
At the end of the day, if you do it, it's because you find it interesting,
relaxing, and/or you're satisfied with the outcome. If you're a purist
you'll spend a few million on land in california, plant your own grapes,
attend a viticulture series at UC Davis, and the rest of your life learning
how to do it all on your own. The beauty of the kit options is that you
don't have to do that, and (apparently - mine aren't done yet), can achieve
comparable results, while keeping your day job.
I'm a bit of a skeptic myself - my advice to you is to find a local brew
group and offer to trade something for a taste of one of their high end,
aged, appropriately made kit wines. That'll give you a feel for if you want
to spend money to enter this hobby, as you'll be able to guage the
outcome of a well done product yourself. I understand there's a home
wine expo in baltimore this august as well, and have been encouraged to
attend - you may wish to consider that.
Wow Rexmor, you really are something.
Sebastian is right.
Rexmor, you will find out if you are making wine by trying the end product. You could be making a liquid you pour down the drain if something goes wrong (not cleaning and sterilizing). It's not like making things from a box. It's like making bread. For those of you who make your own bread, there are many things that can go wrong. If the yeast doesn't get going and doesn't rise, you'll end up with a brick. You don't just add water (and maybe yeast) to your wine kit and let it sit, then bottle it. You let it rise, pound it down, let it rise again then cook it (bottle it). At a later time, you can start manipulating the kit into something of your own creation but adding other things like oak chips, blending other kits to make a Bordeaux, etc.
</span>
Sebastian is right.
Rexmor, you will find out if you are making wine by trying the end product. You could be making a liquid you pour down the drain if something goes wrong (not cleaning and sterilizing). It's not like making things from a box. It's like making bread. For those of you who make your own bread, there are many things that can go wrong. If the yeast doesn't get going and doesn't rise, you'll end up with a brick. You don't just add water (and maybe yeast) to your wine kit and let it sit, then bottle it. You let it rise, pound it down, let it rise again then cook it (bottle it). At a later time, you can start manipulating the kit into something of your own creation but adding other things like oak chips, blending other kits to make a Bordeaux, etc.
</span>
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,210
Rexmor,
You may be getting off your original goal- to help learn the process for making wine.
"I started this wine kit process in order to get down some techniques for making wine. I've got 40 Sangiovese and 30 Zinfandel [Primitivo clone] vines that I planted last year....I'm a couple of years away from making my own, but thought I could at least learn about sanitizing, racking, etc. When I found this forum, I started having higher hopes for the kitwines than I originally did. [but my skepticism will remain until I've tasted it!]"
The kits will give you a little help with a couple basics, but they are kits. When you start making your own wine, there will be many more factors involved. You could try making some of your own wine, starting wine juice only. This will help you with a more accurate process to what you will have when you begin your own harvesting. You can buy juices from a number of sources and George can supply all the rest of the ingredients. One source for some high end juice is elitevintners. They allow you to get 100 percent juice of a number of varieties. You can pick and choose your own juice, yeast, clarifying agents and oak.
Will this give you $100 bottles of wine? Probably not, but then you are calling all the shots as you go. When your vines begin bearing, you will have a better grasp on the processes needed for making the next good wine.
You may be getting off your original goal- to help learn the process for making wine.
"I started this wine kit process in order to get down some techniques for making wine. I've got 40 Sangiovese and 30 Zinfandel [Primitivo clone] vines that I planted last year....I'm a couple of years away from making my own, but thought I could at least learn about sanitizing, racking, etc. When I found this forum, I started having higher hopes for the kitwines than I originally did. [but my skepticism will remain until I've tasted it!]"
The kits will give you a little help with a couple basics, but they are kits. When you start making your own wine, there will be many more factors involved. You could try making some of your own wine, starting wine juice only. This will help you with a more accurate process to what you will have when you begin your own harvesting. You can buy juices from a number of sources and George can supply all the rest of the ingredients. One source for some high end juice is elitevintners. They allow you to get 100 percent juice of a number of varieties. You can pick and choose your own juice, yeast, clarifying agents and oak.
Will this give you $100 bottles of wine? Probably not, but then you are calling all the shots as you go. When your vines begin bearing, you will have a better grasp on the processes needed for making the next good wine.
This topic is now closed since it isn't adding any value for our members. If anyone would like to discuss this further please PM me or e-mail at [email protected].
