WineXpert So, here’s the basis of my skepticism....

[PolishWineP]

We like to stash some of our better wines we want to really age. We put them in wooden wine boxes under our pantry shelves, against the wall. Out of sight, out of mind!


Bert is really in charge of the cellar, so I'm off the hook. But I do know we'll have fully aged wines within the next year or so. IF he behaves himself!

 

[winesnob]

winesnob wrote: "I plan on popping the cork on the first one after two months in the bottle. With an age worthy wine, I love to do this to see how the wine develops. "</span>


If you're planing on that, may I suggest that youuse a case of 375 ml bottles, that way you can try onetwice amonthand still not drink the whole kit in a year. 24 comes in a case.
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That's a great idea, but I'm not really into the 375ml bottles. The only 375ml bottles I have are Sauternes which you can't drink much of in one sitting. Don't get me wrong, when I say popping one open to see how it develops, I do it every 3 months so the stash lasts through maturity.

 

[Waldo]

PWP..Where do you get your wooden boxes?

 

[Funky Fish]

Rexmor,


If you make a wine that you really like, does it really matter what price of commercial wine it compares to? And prices on commercial wine aren't really an indicator. I've had some rather good $20 bottles that sure beat some of the plonk they put in glass and slap a $50 or even a $100 price on. Some of the best wine I've tasted was in Spain -one type was$10 per bottle, the other I got 2 liters forabout $5 (straight from the barrel!).


The bottom lineis: do you like it? Don't try to compare it to what you think others might think or what Mondavi would say. You don't worry if others like a burger the way you prepare it or if they would put the same things on a sandwich that you do, so don't worry about what they think of the wine. If you like it, that's what counts. If others enjoy it as well, then it's a bonus. If not, then it's more for you.


PWP - I'm also interested in where you get your wine boxes.

 

[rexmor]

If I like it, of course it doesn't make any difference. However, while I've had a few wines at $20+ which didn't merit that price, in my opinion, price is usually aprimeindicator of quality. So, before I get too much further into this process [three batches already going!], I'm trying to figure out if I AM making wine that I'm going to enjoy.


At the risk of offending some here, I will say that the many people here who seem to enjoy sweet and/or fruit flavored wines makes me question whether their judgement on the dry wines these kits makeis going to be the same as mine [and I'm not saying either is necessarily "wrong"]. I am active in a lot of different "wine circles", tasting groups, friends who areserious collectors and or with upscale wine stores, and I don't know anyone who enjoys both types. A quality vintage or tawny port after dinner, sure, but not a white zin, or these fruit flavored coolers. MaybeI and all my friendsare wine snobs [apologies to "WineSnob"], but I haven't been able to drink that kind of stuff for more than thirty years.

 

[winesnob]

"However, while I've had a few wines at $20+ which didn't merit that
price, in my opinion, price is usually aprimeindicator of quality."
I guess you are either shopping at the wrong store or hanging out with people who have that same misconception. I've had many white Burgundies and some of the 10-15$ ones would blow away many California Chards in the 50-100$ range. I could say the same for many other types of wines as well.

"three batches already going!" Wow, for a real skeptic, you are really jumping in with both feet with your eyes closed. Have faith in the people in this forum. Why don't you ask what people are making and why? Ask which kits is their favorite and why. Based on the answers, you should be able to tell if you are making the right wine for you.

"I will say that the many people here who seem to enjoy sweet and/or
fruit flavored wines makes me question whether their judgement on the
dry wines these kits makeis going to be the same as mine [and I'm not
saying either is necessarily "wrong"]. I am active in a lot of
different "wine circles", tasting groups, friends who areserious
collectors and or with upscale wine stores, and I don't know anyone who
enjoys both types. A quality vintage or tawny port after dinner, sure,
but not a white zin, or these fruit flavored coolers. MaybeI and all
my friendsare wine snobs [apologies to "WineSnob"], but I haven't been
able to drink that kind of stuff for more than thirty years."
Rexmor, I'm sure you meant to include Sauternes in a sweet wine you and your "wine circle" friends enjoy. There are many producers which are highly reguarded with serious collectors. If you have a dinner party, what wine will you serve with a nice fruit dessert? You wouldn't server a nice vintage port or a dry wine. Ports are enjoyed AFTER a meal. On a different note...have you ever had a guest who doesn't like dry wines? What would you serve them? I always keep a sweet wine or white zin. in the cellar for such an occasion.

Sorry to rant, but I have two different couples living on my street. They are truely wine snobs to the degree that they only drink fruit forward California (Cabs and Red. Zins) wines that cost at least $50. They wouldn't dream of having a Sauternes, a Loire, or a Rose'. This is why they are not in my wine circle and do not get invited to wine events my wife and I host, they are narrow minded.

 

[rexmor]

Well, at the risk of offending you further, I don't particularly enjoy Sauternes, even with dessert....although some of my friends do. And, you obviously like French wines more than I do.....I"m an Italian guy [which is why I'm making Sangiovese and Nebbiolo wines].


I'm certainly not a wine snob to the extent that I only enjoy "fruit forward" $50+ wines. Even though I live in California, and enjoy the wines here, my favorite winesareones from the Italian Piedmont, which are certainly not fruit forward, although some certainly approach, or exceed $50. I've absolutely had lots of good $10-15 wines, some which would challenge wines costing upwards of $30. But, I've certainly never had a $50 bottle which I would label as "plonk" as the poster above did. I didn't say that price was theONLY indicator, just that I feel it's usuallya pretty good one to weed out plonk.


To answer your question, if I have guest I know doesn't like dry wines, I do try to have on hand something they will enjoy. However, these are exactly the people whose judgement I wouldn't trust if they advised me on something I should try....which is exactly my point.


Question: doYOUenjoy White Zinfandel? Mango Chardonnay? Black Rasberry Merlot? I wouldn't think so, since in my experience that would not be consistent with someone who loves Bordeaux, but perhaps I'm wrong.I think it entirely reasonableto wonder whether people who do like those wines enjoy the kits because they are more "fruit forward" than the kind ofwines I enjoy.


And yes, I do tend to jump in with both feet. After all, if I DO like it, then I won't want to wait another 6 months to be able to drink some more. What the heck, at worst I've squandered a few hundred bucks making marinade. Edited by: rexmor

 

[winesnob]

Rexmor,
First, sorry you don't like Sauternes. I used to be that way, but my palate has matured and I've learned to appreciate a wine for what it is and how it's made.
Although my cellar has more French wine than any other wine region in the world, I do not limit myself to French. I started collecting Barbarescos and Borolos a couple years back and have a spot in my heart for Barberas as well. I have had some Piemonte styles which are fruit forward, though they are not Nebbiolo based (think Barbera and Dolcetto).

Have you ever had a later vintage of Opus One? This was a gift from a friend who chases names. The 2000 vintage I had, I wouldn't have paid $15 for it. It's not to say Opus has not made great wines in the past, but just because they still charge over $100 a bottle for it, doesn't mean it's still a good wine.

I've never had a Mango Chardonnay, but I have had a white Zin. before although not in a while based on who produces them are not up to higher standards. I have had some very nice Rose's. The Rose's I've enjoyed are from the Grenache grape (without the skins). A white Zin. is just a Red Zin. without the skins. Many good/great producers are not making White Zins because of the stigmatism that goes along with White Zin. so they are making "Rose's". On a hot summer's day, I just love to sit on the porch drinking a nice refreshing semi-sweet chilled rose' because a dry white does not cut it and the dry white is better served at 50-55 degrees.

So, in short...don't judge a wine by it's name (White Zin.), by it's price (Opus One), but by the quality and standards of the wine maker.

 

[rexmor]

Believe me, I am NOT a price worshiper. One of my greatest pleasures is discovering a really good ten dollar bottle of wine. And, I agree about Opus One, My son in law gave me one last Christmas [his boss gave him a case!], and it wouldn't have stacked up to some twenty fivedollar Chilean Cabs I've had recently. I have to say,though, that on average you find more good wines in the twenty dollar range than the ten dollar bin. You'll find more really good wines in the fifty dollar range than the twenty dollar one. And, contrary to what the poster above said, you don't buy "plonk' for fifty dollars, unless you've been defrauded.


I'm also not totally down on French wines. One of my greatest wine memories is New Year's Eve, 1999 [the big millenium celebration] when one of my best friends [who owns the best wine store in LA] brought a magnum of 1982 Mouton to go with the beef tenderloin I was roasting. It was sublime.


I also am well aware of what makes a white zin. It's not the rose I mind, it's the residual sugar. We'll never agree on the semi sweet thing. I'd sooner have a beer on that summer afternoon. I do enjoy dry roses like Bonny Doon's grenaches, especially with grilled salmon.


Peace.

 

[winesnob]

So, it all boils down to not liking sweet wines...that's no big deal.
Well, if the kit says it's dry, I would say go for it. Also, try sticking to the higher end kits as well. You shouldn't be disappointed.

I was wondering if Masta was going to shut us off from our "discussion".

Rexmor, what kits are you making?? I'm making the WE Santa Ynez Valley Syrah. I'm hoping it's going to be a nice full-bodied red wine with just the right amount of tannins. Good luck with yours. I hope you won't be disappointed.

 

[geocorn]

The one thing I have learned above all else, since I started making my own wine is that everybody has different tastes and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I got into the hobby to make cabs and chards and I have made 1 cab and no chards in the last 18 months. I have moved into the Big Reds and some of the lesser known whites, like Sauv. Blanc andViognier. I have also discovered I enjoy a good ice wine and LOVE a good port, but find it hard to enjoy most sweet, fruity wines.


I think a lot of readers are going to be surprised when I post the wine kit sales.


I said all of this to say that nobody is wrong or a snob. We just have differences of opinion and as long as we keep it civil, I will let the 2 of you have your "discussion".

 

[pkcook]

Have you tried a "Cellar Rat" Concord 2006 (oaked of course)with a nice grilled cheese?

It's to die for!


Couldn't resist

.


My two cents: If "Two Buck Chuck" floats your boat, then you probably have more money to invest elsewhere. I would love to try $100 bottles of wine, but the divorce would break me after my wife found out

.

 

[masta]

Remember guys and gals 'Variety is the spice of life" and I too don't care for the fruity type wines like a White Zin but I don't knock anyone for drinking it nor would I think about spending $100.00 for one bottle of wine but that is my choice.


I was close to closing this topic yesterday since it seemed to be getting out of hand but since George has laid out the rules, go ahead and continue.


We have many members who are here because of the friendly atmosphere and certainly want to maintain that. I know the discussion has been civil so far but we all need to help keep it that way.


Thanks

 

[Lenore]

I had to chime in on this topic. I really love a deep dark bold red. I like them spicy, fruity, Italian, French and Californian. I would typically spend $20 on a bottle when I used to buy wines. I enjoy my creations much more than the purchased wines. However, my family likes the sweet lighter wines. You must give the people what they want. So I make lots of roses and Island Mist kits with an alcohol boost. I too will drink these (they cost so little to produce) and I can appreciate them for what they are- fruit juice with alcohol. They are light and refreshing and have their place in my palate. I don't think a love of dry red wines has to preclude you from appreciating and enjoying wines that are light and sweet. I have not been able to drink a cheap commercial wine in years (my box wine days of college are long gone!!). The best advice anyone can give you is that the proof is in the pudding- and I hope you like yours as much as we like ours. If you don't I am sure you can find someone to buy your equipment off of you and you can go back to your commercial wines.

 

[PolishWineP]

I have found that my tastes in wines moves. Something I may have really enjoyed a couple of years ago no longer pleases my palate, but I may like it again a few years from now. I guess it keeps me from drinking the same wines all the time! Good for me!


As far as the wooden boxes, Bert built them. They're heavy once they're loaded, but I know they won't crush or split. They are perfect for stashing wines for out of sight, out of mind.

 

[winesnob]

Oh no, not another post by with winesnob...

Wooden boxes...
I love wooden boxes and have many in my cellear to do exactly with PWP does (out of site...). I've personally collected this by purchases cases of wine that come in wooden boxes. I know that wine stores will have these as well and will either discard them because they have too many or use them in displays. If you can get in close with a person who works in these stores, I'm sure you can pick them up that way.

 

[rexmor]

Wine Snob...I started this wine kit process in order to get down some techniques for making wine. I've got 40 Sangiovese and 30 Zinfandel [Primitivo clone] vines that I planted last year....I'm a couple of years away from making my own, but thought I could at least learn about sanitizing, racking, etc. When I found this forum, I started having higher hopes for the kitwines than I originally did. [but my skepticism will remain until I've tasted it!]


So, to answer your question, I started with a VR Zinfandel, and the Selection Italian Sangiovese. I've most recently started the Selection Barbaresco [which smells really good]. That's the one I'm really hoping turns out well, because I love Nebbiolo based wines, and don't like [can't afford]having to pay $30+ for good commercial ones. My wife and I are doing two weeks in Asti this coming September during their annual Wine festival, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to bring back a case or two.

 

[winesnob]

rexmor, if you like Nebbiolo wines and don't want to pay over $30, you should try the Produttori del Barbaresco Langhe Nebbiolo and the Cantina del Pino Langhe Nebbiolo. They are truely excellent!! I just bought some more today. The 2004 of each is out now and they could use some cellar time, but are very enjoyable now.

 

[rexmor]

Wine Snob, thanks for the tip. Where did you find them? I just checked my buddy's store'son line catalog [winehouse.com] and he doesn't carry them.

 

[winesnob]

You can either try wine-searcher.com if you are in the online buying mode, but there's a place in Concord, Ma called Vintages (who do not sell on the internet) where I get my Italian wine. They have been quoted (by an Italian oenologist) as being the best Italian wine store in the country. All his wines are hand picked and does not have a bad wine in his store. You're next trip to Boston should include a trip there.