Red Blend different approach

[colariu]

I am looking into making a red blend of Cab S/Merlot/Cab Franc (70%,20%,10%) this year different from the past ones. I plan on controlling the fermentation temp to about 75F (let it rise a day to 85 F for a day and then cool it back to 75). By the 3 rd day of fermentation I plan on removing the seeds in order to avoid harsh tannins and allow for extended maceration. Once the fermentation is complete I would top up the fermentation barrel, place a lid on ( minimizing oxygen exposure) and keep it on the skins ( seeds already removed) for another week. I was also considering of destemming but not crushing the grapes. Does anyone have any experience with fermenting without crushing the grapes, just destemmed ? Would you say that this process would extract less of harsh tannins ? Feel free to comment on each of the steps.

Thanks

 

[winemaker81]

How do you plan to remove the seeds? Scrape some utensil along the bottom of the fermenter to scoop up what you can?

Are you adding fermentation oak?

@Cynewulf has done wholeberry fermentation -- he may be able to offer guidance.

 

[colariu]

@winemaker81
I was planning to remove the cap and scoop the seeds...( trying to play it safe as I would like to try out extended maceration and not to get any harsh tannins from the seeds late in the fermentation process).

@Cynewulf curious what are your thoughts about whole berry fermentations? As far as extended maceration I have noticed you did a successful long EM, did you add any SO2 prior to that ?Does the container need to have a bubbler? I was planning to have the container filled to the top with must with a lid on. Daily I would open it to wet the cap.( I am new to EM).

Thanks

 

[ChuckD]

Does anyone have any experience with fermenting without crushing the grapes, just destemmed ?

I think @Hazelemere does a lot of hand de-stemming and whole berry fermentation as well. I too am curious about the process. Do the berries stay whole through fermentation or do the yeast get inside and “pop” them prior to pressing? What are the benefits?

Next year will be my first harvest (low volume) so it’s something I’m considering.

 

[Hazelemere]

I think @Hazelemere does a lot of hand de-stemming and whole berry fermentation as well. I too am curious about the process. Do the berries stay whole through fermentation or do the yeast get inside and “pop” them prior to pressing? What are the benefits?

Next year will be my first harvest (low volume) so it’s something I’m considering.

benefits:

1. seeds are as far away from alcohol as they can get (lowest seed tannins)

2. skins are as close to alcohol as they can get (maximum colour and smell)

3. most tannins are from skins not seeds.

4. ferment slows down to make smoother wines

5. yes the yeast get inside and pop them prior to pressing.

 

[VinesnBines]

I do, have done, EM usually combined with submerged cap fermentation. Last year I did a three week EM on my Chelois. I submerged the cap early in the fermentation for over a week then in the last week kept the skins wet (the cap had pretty much dropped). The color is amazing and the flavor very fruity - just what I was aiming for and consistent with the variety. I did not add kmeta until I pressed.

I also did some “whole berry” fermentation with frozen grapes. I froze with stems so I had to dip stems out by hand as the fermentation progressed. Since those batches were fermented early this Spring I don’t have a final verdict.

 

[Cynewulf]

@Cynewulf curious what are your thoughts about whole berry fermentations? As far as extended maceration I have noticed you did a successful long EM, did you add any SO2 prior to that ?Does the container need to have a bubbler? I was planning to have the container filled to the top with must with a lid on. Daily I would open it to wet the cap.( I am new to EM).

Thanks

To clarify, I do 15%-40+% whole cluster fermentations, so I’m not destemming the berries before adding them. If you’re interested, I think this is an informative article on working with whole clusters with different perspectives: Whole bunch fermentations and use of stems in red winemaking.

I don’t currently add any SO2 to my wine, beyond what I use for sanitizing equipment. It’s a stylistic preference rather than an ideological commitment. That may change in the future depending on how this year goes, and if the yield from my vineyard increases to where I have enough to experiment with, but I’m generally happy with the results I am getting now.

By bubbler do you mean airlock? If so then no, I don’t have an airlock on the fermentation vessel (Brute trash can), and I don’t try to seal it in any way or add CO2 or argon gas. I leave it for 1-2 weeks after it has fermented dry.

 

[Cynewulf]

I do, have done, EM usually combined with submerged cap fermentation. Last year I did a three week EM on my Chelois. I submerged the cap early in the fermentation for over a week then in the last week kept the skins wet (the cap had pretty much dropped). The color is amazing and the flavor very fruity - just what I was aiming for and consistent with the variety. I did not add kmeta until I pressed.

A few of us got to taste @VinesnBines Chelois a couple months ago next to one from a New York winery, and it was remarkable how hers was superior in both color and taste. She’s definitely doing something right.

 

[VinesnBines]

A few of us got to taste @VinesnBines Chelois a couple months ago next to one from a New York winery, and it was remarkable how hers was superior in both color and taste. She’s definitely doing something right.

Thanks so much. I bottled the Chelois two weeks ago and it had improved from the time you tasted it in July.

I highly recommend EM and whole berry fermentation. Cynewulf’s whole berry Marquette is outstanding.

 

[ChuckD]

To clarify, I do 15%-40+% whole cluster fermentations, so I’m not destemming the berries before adding them. If you’re interested, I think this is an informative article on working with whole clusters with different perspectives: Whole bunch fermentations and use of stems in red winemaking.

I don’t currently add any SO2 to my wine, beyond what I use for sanitizing equipment. It’s a stylistic preference rather than an ideological commitment. That may change in the future depending on how this year goes, and if the yield from my vineyard increases to where I have enough to experiment with, but I’m generally happy with the results I am getting now.

By bubbler do you mean airlock? If so then no, I don’t have an airlock on the fermentation vessel (Brute trash can), and I don’t try to seal it in any way or add CO2 or argon gas. I leave it for 1-2 weeks after it has fermented dry.

Thanks. Excellent article. I can’t wait to experiment with whole cluster and hand de-stemmed grapes.