Planning for small vineyard in southern Arizona

[Twkundrat]

Ah, cool yeah no I meant where we are were the only winery.

I am interested to see how your vineyard goes, I would strongly suggest Spanish grape varietals or Italian to deal with the heat and get a good wine. As cab does not like heat I would look more along the lines of Grenache or Mourvèdre or something like that though Sangiovese is also a good pick.

I know it's a bit hotter where I am than Sonoita but I will say that I personally have preferred some of the cabs over some of the Grenache and Sangiovese wines I've had from Sonoita. I don't know if I've tried a Mourvedre from Arizona before. I imagine the quality is not as good but I have heard of people having luck growing Cabernet Sauvignon grapes even up near Phoenix.

I see that Double A only has 5BB rootstock with the Mourvedre. Is that suitable for this area? I'm also curious if Syrah would grow well in my climate or if the heat would be too much for it? Thanks for any advice or suggestions

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I know it's a bit hotter where I am than Sonoita but I will say that I personally have preferred some of the cabs over some of the Grenache and Sangiovese wines I've had from Sonoita. I don't know if I've tried a Mourvedre from Arizona before. I imagine the quality is not as good but I have heard of people having luck growing Cabernet Sauvignon grapes even up near Phoenix.

I see that Double A only has 5BB rootstock with the Mourvedre. Is that suitable for this area? I'm also curious if Syrah would grow well in my climate or if the heat would be too much for it? Thanks for any advice or suggestions

Much of the wines in Arizona are not very good mostly because the winemakers in the state have a general inexperience and they haven’t hit a stride yet quality wise.

For your area 1103p is better it does better in dry areas and is vigorous and grows well anywhere. 5BB is finicky and prone to just not producing fruit at all randomly we are possibly going to plant Sangiovese near phoenix.

While it is months away from release our wines should release and in my opinion should be a big hit, bringing a new level of quality to the state as a whole and we are the only winery in our area.

 

[Twkundrat]

Much of the wines in Arizona are not very good mostly because the winemakers in the state have a general inexperience and they haven’t hit a stride yet quality wise.

For your area 1103p is better it does better in dry areas and is vigorous and grows well anywhere. 5BB is finicky and prone to just not producing fruit at all randomly we are possibly going to plant Sangiovese near phoenix.

While it is months away from release our wines should release and in my opinion should be a big hit, bringing a new level of quality to the state as a whole and we are the only winery in our area.

I've certainly had plenty of not so good Arizona wines but some pretty decent ones also to my not very refined palate.

I think I will stay away from the 5BB if it is finicky. Thanks for the info.

Best of luck with the release of your wine. Sounds exciting. I hope it is a big hit.

 

[Joe B.]

I'm located in an area that may not get as hot as Arizona but we get 100+ degree days on a regular basis in the summer and I have found out of the 4 varieties I grow, Barbera will produce the most consistently good wine unless I screw it up. It retains good acid levels so I don't have to make adjustments to get the PH down. I also have some Syrah vines on 1103P rootstock which is very drought resistant and the last few years I have been able to dry farming it. ( My soil has good clay content).

Good luck with your new vineyard!

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I'm located in an area that may not get as hot as Arizona but we get 100+ degree days on a regular basis in the summer and I have found out of the 4 varieties I grow, Barbera will produce the most consistently good wine unless I screw it up. It retains good acid levels so I don't have to make adjustments to get the PH down. I also have some Syrah vines on 1103P rootstock which is very drought resistant and the last few years I have been able to dry farming it. ( My soil has good clay content).

Good luck with your new vineyard!

1103 Paulsen is disease resistant as well it’s a good all around rootstock for pretty much anywhere it also tolerates soil that holds a good bit of water. Pretty broad spectrum overall it also is resistant to pierces disease.

The only thing I will add is that it is sensitive to iron deficiency.

 

[Twkundrat]

I appreciate all the info. As far as plant spacing I'm wondering if I can get away with closer spacing being in a harsh climate with poor soil. I don't imagine I will have overly vigorous growth. I think I will probably just start with maybe ten vines. With how busy my life is right now I'd rather do something small and manageable. If I could do five foot spacing I could fit ten vines in a row along one fence in my backyard where I would like them to be.

I think I am still leaning toward Cabernet Sauvignon or possibly Syrah even if they are not the best for my climate. I would like to do a French variety strictly because of me being stubborn (Probably from the French portion of my ancestry) and because what originally got me interested in making wine was hearing about my French great grandfather's vineyard and wine making. Between the two of these is there one that would likely do better in my climate?

I know I'm a good ways away from needing to figure it out but I'm interested in thoughts on pruning methods. A lot of what I've read suggests spur pruning for Arizona. I can't say I've paid a lot of attention but I feel like I've seen a number of cane pruned vineyards in Southern Arizona.

I'm looking forward to getting my soil tested soon to get an idea of what exactly I'm working with. Again, thanks for sharing all of the expertise.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I appreciate all the info. As far as plant spacing I'm wondering if I can get away with closer spacing being in a harsh climate with poor soil. I don't imagine I will have overly vigorous growth. I think I will probably just start with maybe ten vines. With how busy my life is right now I'd rather do something small and manageable. If I could do five foot spacing I could fit ten vines in a row along one fence in my backyard where I would like them to be.

I think I am still leaning toward Cabernet Sauvignon or possibly Syrah even if they are not the best for my climate. I would like to do a French variety strictly because of me being stubborn (Probably from the French portion of my ancestry) and because what originally got me interested in making wine was hearing about my French great grandfather's vineyard and wine making. Between the two of these is there one that would likely do better in my climate?

I know I'm a good ways away from needing to figure it out but I'm interested in thoughts on pruning methods. A lot of what I've read suggests spur pruning for Arizona. I can't say I've paid a lot of attention but I feel like I've seen a number of cane pruned vineyards in Southern Arizona.

I'm looking forward to getting my soil tested soon to get an idea of what exactly I'm working with. Again, thanks for sharing all of the expertise.

Go with Syrah it tolerates heat better

 

[Tberns]

I'm thinking about planting a small number of grape vines (probably around 15) in my backyard just southeast of Tucson, AZ. Right now I'm trying to decide on the best variety and rootstock and the best place to order them from. I'm leaning towards Cabernet Sauvignon and 1103p rootstock. I'm also hearing that a few Arizona wineries are making some very good Syrah wines.

My elevation is right around 3100 feet and temperatures range from the low 20's to around 110+ degrees. The soil is sandy with some clay but fairly well draining and on the alkaline side. I've been told by some people with vineyards fairly close by that I would want a rootstock that is resistant to Pierce's disease.

I have been looking at Double A in New York and a couple of nurseries in California. Would there be any advantage to order from California being that the climate is a little more similar to Arizona than New York?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Hazelemere]

https://azwinegrowersassociation.com/

 

[GSMChris]

I used Sunridge nurseries out of Bakersfield. They are one of largest providers in the country and have a huge selection of clones and rootstock combinations

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I'm thinking about planting a small number of grape vines (probably around 15) in my backyard just southeast of Tucson, AZ. Right now I'm trying to decide on the best variety and rootstock and the best place to order them from. I'm leaning towards Cabernet Sauvignon and 1103p rootstock. I'm also hearing that a few Arizona wineries are making some very good Syrah wines.

My elevation is right around 3100 feet and temperatures range from the low 20's to around 110+ degrees. The soil is sandy with some clay but fairly well draining and on the alkaline side. I've been told by some people with vineyards fairly close by that I would want a rootstock that is resistant to Pierce's disease.

I have been looking at Double A in New York and a couple of nurseries in California. Would there be any advantage to order from California being that the climate is a little more similar to Arizona than New York?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Your big issue will be planting time, as you don’t want to plant when it’s hot or vines will stress out but too early and it won’t work out either.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I used Sunridge nurseries out of Bakersfield. They are one of largest providers in the country and have a huge selection of clones and rootstock combinations

Novavine is the biggest and best in the US.

 

[GSMChris]

Actually Wonderful is the largest according to wine business analytics.

I would agree that Novavine is a fine and highly recommended company - but the sales rep didn’t return either phone calls or emails so I went with SunRidge which was very responsive and supportive.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Actually Wonderful is the largest according to wine business analytics.

I would agree that Novavine is a fine and highly recommended company - but the sales rep didn’t return either phone calls or emails so I went with SunRidge which was very responsive and supportive.

That’s because they do email only last time I talked to them

 

[GSMChris]

That’s because they do email only last time I talked to them

Didn’t answer multiple emails - as I previously said - either.

 

[Twkundrat]

So right now I am leaning towards Syrah. I might possibly do some Grenache as well but I'm not sure. Someone told me that they had issues with wind damage with their Syrah. He said the shoots are more fragile than the other varieties he has. It is very windy in my area so hopefully it won't be too much of a problem. Maybe some extra wires on the trellis might be enough to help that issue.

 

[Tberns]

So right now I am leaning towards Syrah. I might possibly do some Grenache as well but I'm not sure. Someone told me that they had issues with wind damage with their Syrah. He said the shoots are more fragile than the other varieties he has. It is very windy in my area so hopefully it won't be too much of a problem. Maybe some extra wires on the trellis might be enough to help that issue.

For what it is worth, I have 4 year old Grenache and Tempranillo planted not far from you. Both have done well, but the Grenache has been a bit touchy for want of a better description. Nice thing about Grenache is it is great as a stand alone and blends well with lots of other varieties.

 

[Twkundrat]

For what it is worth, I have 4 year old Grenache and Tempranillo planted not far from you. Both have done well, but the Grenache has been a bit touchy for want of a better description. Nice thing about Grenache is it is great as a stand alone and blends well with lots of other varieties.

Good to know. What kind of issues have you had with the Grenache? Would you plant it again?

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Good to know. What kind of issues have you had with the Grenache? Would you plant it again?

Grenache is mostly good for blends it always falls flat on its face in pure Grenache wines it lacks good tannins it lacks good acidity has poor color potential and tends to suffer from a few faults in winemaking.

I like that the vines grow basically anywhere but they also tend to crop heavily. I like it in blends where it’s the minority in the blend. A gsm with 25% Grenache at the most and predominantly Syrah tends to work out better in my opinion.

 

[Twkundrat]

Grenache is mostly good for blends it always falls flat on its face in pure Grenache wines it lacks good tannins it lacks good acidity has poor color potential and tends to suffer from a few faults in winemaking.

I like that the vines grow basically anywhere but they also tend to crop heavily. I like it in blends where it’s the minority in the blend. A gsm with 25% Grenache at the most and predominantly Syrah tends to work out better in my opinion.

I agree that it's mostly good for blends. I was thinking about possibly just doing a few Grenache plants and the majority of Syrah.

I know I'm overthinking this whole deal for just a handful of plants but I'd like to get things started right.

I am having a hard time finding anyone who sells small quantities of vines with 1103P rootstock for Syrah and Grenache. I think Grapevines Galore might but they haven't responded to my emails. I'm going to try to find time during business hours to call them.