Planning for small vineyard in southern Arizona

[Nebbiolo020]

What would be the best method to incorporate these into my soil? Also, what amount of everything should be added?

You need to figure out the square feet of the area your vines will be and then use that to calculate the requirements because they have a pounds per acre required section on the bottom of your soil test. You can take the total square feet and do the math to get a dosage.

 

[Hazelemere]

epsom salts from a watering can say 1/4 cup in a gallon of water. Add one cup to each plant. With 2 tsp of trace elements (e.g. micromax) once a year when your plants are young. Also mulch them e.g. straw or hay mulch so they don't dry out in the heat.

 

[Twkundrat]

You need to figure out the square feet of the area your vines will be and then use that to calculate the requirements because they have a pounds per acre required section on the bottom of your soil test. You can take the total square feet and do the math to get a dosage.

Ah, I see that now. I've never really messed with any of this stuff before so I didn't know what I was looking at.

 

[Twkundrat]

epsom salts from a watering can say 1/4 cup in a gallon of water. Add one cup to each plant. With 2 tsp of trace elements (e.g. micromax) once a year when your plants are young. Also mulch them e.g. straw or hay mulch so they don't dry out in the heat.

Thanks for the info

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Don’t

Ah, I see that now. I've never really messed with any of this stuff before so I didn't know what I was looking at.

do epsom it’s acidic I would suggest actually using 1 of 2 products Langbeinite which is a potassium magnesium calcium product that has a lot of potassium which is okay and a lot of magnesium and doesn’t impact soil PH and it is slow release. Option 2 is Microboost from hoss tools in a gallon of water per each plant it has dosage on bottle but it’s like 1-2 tablespoons and has all the micronutrients, provided you do it when it’s cool outside you can do Prevegenics micronutrients from Amazon sprayed onto the leaves as well foliar micronutrients are good for grapes.

 

[Hazelemere]

Don’t

do epsom it’s acidic I would suggest actually using 1 of 2 products Langbeinite which is a potassium magnesium calcium product that has a lot of potassium which is okay and a lot of magnesium and doesn’t impact soil PH and it is slow release. Option 2 is Microboost from hoss tools in a gallon of water per each plant it has dosage on bottle but it’s like 1-2 tablespoons and has all the micronutrients, provided you do it when it’s cool outside you can do Prevegenics micronutrients from Amazon sprayed onto the leaves as well foliar micronutrients are good for grapes.

epsom salts are not acidic. I'm a chemist. Trust me on this.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Thanks for the info. I have also found that the local commercial vineyards are willing to help whenever I've asked for advice. My problem is that I need to write down what they say because I always think I'll remember it but then I forget half of what they say.

use your phone recorder app. but ask first.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

epsom salts are not acidic. I'm a chemist. Trust me on this.

I am just mentioning common products to use, I part own a winery have worked in the industry for a long time and have had to do nutrient correction in many vineyards, you may be right about epsom but I have found in my experience that I have seen soil ph drops after applying it, I have preferred balanced liquid micronutrients diluted and watered in, either with a sprayer or drip line in vineyards grapes respond faster to it in my experience and if you have a bad problem and need a even faster response foliar micronutrients can show positive results in 3-7 days. Vines really react well to it.

 

[Hazelemere]

I am just mentioning common products to use, I part own a winery have worked in the industry for a long time and have had to do nutrient correction in many vineyards, you may be right about epsom but I have found in my experience that I have seen soil ph drops after applying it, I have preferred balanced liquid micronutrients diluted and watered in, either with a sprayer or drip line in vineyards grapes respond faster to it in my experience and if you have a bad problem and need a even faster response foliar micronutrients can show positive results in 3-7 days. Vines really react well to it.

Excess magnesium can make the soil dump potassium or calcium. Dumping calcium can make the pH drop. Adding a blend of epsom salts and bone meal or sulpomag with bonemeal solves this problem.

I add the following each year to 130 vines:

1 large bag fish bonemeal
1/3 large bag kelp meal
1 large bag sulpomag (potassium magnesium sulphate)
1/3 bag rock phosphate powder
1 large ice cream bucket of micromax
1 small box of 20 mule team borax.

my soil pH is ~6.5 (If it drops to 6 I add dolomite powder

I compost under the rows with grass clippings fed from slow release lawn fertilizer and between the rows with leaf mulch or compost during the winter.

 

[Twkundrat]

Well I appreciate all of the info from everyone. Do I need to add anything to the soil before planting or would these nutrients all just want to be watered in or sprayed on the vines after planting?

My plan for the soil was to run my auger and loosen up the dirt in a couple foot diameter area around where each vine will be planted. I'm mostly wanting to break up any caliche or rock layer. Then I was planning on adding a layer of compost on top of the soil and then a layer of mulch on top of that. Hopefully I can get my trellis and irrigation set up before too long and start running the drippers to get the mulch to start breaking down and hopefully improve the soil. Am I on the right track with my plan?

 

[Joe B.]

I have one comment for you. 1103P is a very aggressive rootstock and Grenache is a highly vigorous grapevine and so is Syrah but to a lessor extent so you could have a jungle if not given enough space between vines. I would keep that in mind when deciding on spacing.

 

[Twkundrat]

I have one comment for you. 1103P is a very aggressive rootstock and Grenache is a highly vigorous grapevine and so is Syrah but to a lessor extent so you could have a jungle if not given enough space between vines. I would keep that in mind when deciding on spacing.

Thanks. I appreciate the advice

 

[Hazelemere]

Well I appreciate all of the info from everyone. Do I need to add anything to the soil before planting or would these nutrients all just want to be watered in or sprayed on the vines after planting?

My plan for the soil was to run my auger and loosen up the dirt in a couple foot diameter area around where each vine will be planted. I'm mostly wanting to break up any caliche or rock layer. Then I was planning on adding a layer of compost on top of the soil and then a layer of mulch on top of that. Hopefully I can get my trellis and irrigation set up before too long and start running the drippers to get the mulch to start breaking down and hopefully improve the soil. Am I on the right track with my plan?

water in

 

[Twkundrat]

water in

Sounds like a plan. Thanks

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I have one comment for you. 1103P is a very aggressive rootstock and Grenache is a highly vigorous grapevine and so is Syrah but to a lessor extent so you could have a jungle if not given enough space between vines. I would keep that in mind when deciding on spacing.

It’s been in my experience moderately vigorous in my vineyard SO4 has been way more vigorous and prone to throwing out a load of foliage. 1103p produces a lot of suckers though.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Excess magnesium can make the soil dump potassium or calcium. Dumping calcium can make the pH drop. Adding a blend of epsom salts and bone meal or sulpomag with bonemeal solves this problem.

I add the following each year to 130 vines:

1 large bag fish bonemeal
1/3 large bag kelp meal
1 large bag sulpomag (potassium magnesium sulphate)
1/3 bag rock phosphate powder
1 large ice cream bucket of micromax
1 small box of 20 mule team borax.

my soil pH is ~6.5 (If it drops to 6 I add dolomite powder

I compost under the rows with grass clippings fed from slow release lawn fertilizer and between the rows with leaf mulch or compost during the winter.

When you say large bag what size bag are you talking? because a lot of those products are sold as anywhere from 5-60 pound bags.

 

[Hazelemere]

When you say large bag what size bag are you talking? because a lot of those products are sold as anywhere from 5-60 pound bags.

60 lb

 

[Nebbiolo020]

60 lb

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Joe B.]

It’s been in my experience moderately vigorous in my vineyard SO4 has been way more vigorous and prone to throwing out a load of foliage. 1103p produces a lot of suckers though.

I have no experience with SO4 but compared to the other rootstocks I have, St George, 110R, and 3309, 1103P is the most vigorous. So much so, where I originally planted all at 6 foot in row spacings with the 1103P I ended up taking every other vine out and going to 12 ft spacing in order to control the vigor. It goes to show you how much your location, soil etc. effect the vines as well as the grafted variety. Merry Christmas all!

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I have no experience with SO4 but compared to the other rootstocks I have, St George, 110R, and 3309, 1103P is the most vigorous. So much so, where I originally planted all at 6 foot in row spacings with the 1103P I ended up taking every other vine out and going to 12 ft spacing in order to control the vigor. It goes to show you how much your location, soil etc. effect the vines as well as the grafted variety. Merry Christmas all!

Mine are payed very tightly 4 feet between vines and 6 feet between rows, variety on 1103p are Cabernet, Merlot, Nebbiolo.

I have found the worst rootstock for my vineyard to be 101-14 only 3 vines I tested on it survived though 1 of them is the biggest vine in my entire vineyard which is crazy, 5BB has also been a mixed bag some years it does great others I get nothing cause the rootstock in very wet years will randomly cause vines to not make fruit at all.