paw paw wine ... extrapolation a good idea?

[BigDaveK]

No paw paws for me this year....again.
But I had some incredible growth spurts. A number of 1 ft volunteers shot up to 4 ft. Shocked me. They usually ARE slow.

As far as pollinating, I read that since bees don't do much, the flies that do most of the work will be attracted to road kill or manure. My trees are far from the house, fortunately, and I just want the chance to find out.

 

[Snafflebit]

I noticed my paw paw trees growing in shade on a hillside and I wondered if I could bring them into the sun and boost production. They must prefer shade. I was reading that paw paws are related to cherimoya in South America and those have a "tropical" flavor, whatever that means. I don't recall the paw paw tasting like that. I am going to Peru in November and I plan to find some cherimoya to eat.

 

[VinesnBines]

They do appear to prefer shade. The C and O Canal towpath is full of Paw Paw trees and I actually picked enough for a batch of wine. That is why I say they like shade and wet or moist feet.

 

[Snafflebit]

As far as pollinating, I read that since bees don't do much, the flies that do most of the work will be attracted to road kill or manure.

That is interesting. My avocado tree flowers do not attract bees much either I have noticed. The random honeybee will investigate and lose interest. It is flies that do most of the polination. It may be a trait of new world plants.

 

[rarevintage]

I've never made wine with my paw paws, but the ones in my yard get probably 6 - 8 hours or more of full sun in the summer (2 mango, one pa golden, one nc4, and one sunflower). I do try to hand pollinate in the spring with an artist's paint brush (one can google videos about this), although you need to cross-pollinate between varieties. I have heard, though, that Sunflower pawpaw might be self-fertile (?). I also dump my fruit and vegetable food waste (that would normally go in the compost pile) in a spot in the approximate middle of the trees for about 4 -6 weeks in the spring when they are flowering. I have some others growing from seed that aren't growing very fast at all, but hopefully they will be large enough for grafting in the next year or two.

 

[rarevintage]

I've never made wine with my paw paws, but the ones in my yard get probably 6 - 8 hours or more of full sun in the summer (2 mango, one pa golden, one nc4, and one sunflower). I do try to hand pollinate in the spring with an artist's paint brush (one can google videos about this), although you need to cross-pollinate between varieties. I have heard, though, that Sunflower pawpaw might be self-fertile (?). I also dump my fruit and vegetable food waste (that would normally go in the compost pile) in a spot in the approximate middle of the trees for about 4 -6 weeks in the spring when they are flowering. I have some others growing from seed that aren't growing very fast at all, but hopefully they will be large enough for grafting in the next year or two.

PS. the fruit/vegetable waste does draw flies, etc. Also, I've noticed quite a few ladybugs in the pawpaw blooms.

 

[RRRwine]

OK, so I saw this thread go active and had never seen it before
VINESNBINES: looking back over the years, you may have had success with PawPaws at some point. Are you still sticking with the original process/recipe you mentioned back at the beginning of this in 2020?

Anyone else ever have success with them?
I have a fairly large set of groves on my rural property and have pulled harvests on 3 occasions and attempted to turn them into wine. Always huge failures. Taste so musty.

Seeing this thread makes me wonder if I should try again this fall

 

[MrKellso]

PS: since paw paws aren't really sugary-sweet (unlike figs), the sugar addition might be kinda iffy? I wouldn't know exactly where to start with that .....

You mentioned this and it caught my attention. I'm trying my hand at what I would call a pawpaw cider using my BEERMKR, but I have been curious about making a wine via traditional methods WITHOUT sugar. The reason I was wondering about using pure juice, maybe by using an extractor, is because my pawpaws are giving a reading of 25° Brix. I was sure my measurements were wrong, but then I found a research paper where their different varieties were reading at least 20° Brix.

Am I missing something, realizing there just may be way too much pulp from pawpaw to realistically extract enough liquid?

 

[VinesnBines]

You mentioned this and it caught my attention. I'm trying my hand at what I would call a pawpaw cider using my BEERMKR, but I have been curious about making a wine via traditional methods WITHOUT sugar. The reason I was wondering about using pure juice, maybe by using an extractor, is because my pawpaws are giving a reading of 25° Brix. I was sure my measurements were wrong, but then I found a research paper where their different varieties were reading at least 20° Brix.

Am I missing something, realizing there just may be way too much pulp from pawpaw to realistically extract enough liquid?

You may not need sugar or water but pawpaws are mostly seeds. I would advise trying to get the seeds out before pressing or fermenting. They give a bitter aftertaste.

OK, so I saw this thread go active and had never seen it before
VINESNBINES: looking back over the years, you may have had success with PawPaws at some point. Are you still sticking with the original process/recipe you mentioned back at the beginning of this in 2020?

Anyone else ever have success with them?
I have a fairly large set of groves on my rural property and have pulled harvests on 3 occasions and attempted to turn them into wine. Always huge failures. Taste so musty.

Seeing this thread makes me wonder if I should try again this fall

I only made the one batch in 2020. I haven’t gathered enough for another batch. I would probably make it again- removing as many seeds as possible first. It won’t be this year - too much grape harvest looming.

 

[MrKellso]

You may not need sugar or water but pawpaws are mostly seeds. I would advise trying to get the seeds out before pressing or fermenting. They give a bitter aftertaste.


I only made the one batch in 2020. I haven’t gathered enough for another batch. I would probably make it again- removing as many seeds as possible first. It won’t be this year - too much grape harvest looming.

BEERMKR makes in the neighborhood of 144 ounces and provides a proprietary tap for carbonation and dispensing. I used 2 pounds of pawpaw, including seeds and skins, and 1.5 pounds of sugar, servomyces, Lalvin EC-1118 (after cooldown), and water, and that's it. My reasoning was to extract tannins from the skin and seeds. The system only pasteurizes to 160°F, and I wasn't happy with what looked like low extraction, and with what was too low an OG, 1.036, so I stopped the "brew" and started it again, adding 1/2 pound of sugar to the already added pound, essentially getting more time for extraction during the second pasteurization. I removed the "mash", and OG at yeast addition was 1.060.

Could be a total failure not knowing whether I have too much or too little tannin, but I am looking for something simple and repeatable. I'm not to the point of being willing to buy a juice extractor to test the pure wine theory, but maybe I could increase the amount of pawpaw and sugar to get a 9+ ABV "wine" still using water.

One thing I did was use fresh pawpaw, and I'm sure sugar extraction would have been easier if I had frozen and thawed pawpaw, instead.

 

[VinesnBines]

BEERMKR makes in the neighborhood of 144 ounces and provides a proprietary tap for carbonation and dispensing. I used 2 pounds of pawpaw, including seeds and skins, and 1.5 pounds of sugar, servomyces, Lalvin EC-1118 (after cooldown), and water, and that's it. My reasoning was to extract tannins from the skin and seeds. The system only pasteurizes to 160°F, and I wasn't happy with what looked like low extraction, and with what was too low an OG, 1.036, so I stopped the "brew" and started it again, adding 1/2 pound of sugar to the already added pound, essentially getting more time for extraction during the second pasteurization. I removed the "mash", and OG at yeast addition was 1.060.

Could be a total failure not knowing whether I have too much or too little tannin, but I am looking for something simple and repeatable. I'm not to the point of being willing to buy a juice extractor to test the pure wine theory, but maybe I could increase the amount of pawpaw and sugar to get a 9+ ABV "wine" still using water.

You may get more bitterness from the skins. Anyway, that’s what I understood and why I peeled the pawpaws.

Do post your results.

 

[Raptor99]

I just learned two interesting facts:
1. Pawpaw trees are deer resistant
2. They can withstand cold temperatures

I wonder if I could plant some? What does the fruit taste like? Does it make good wine?

 

[Snafflebit]

I wonder if I could plant some? What does the fruit taste like? Does it make good wine?

You came to the right thread. They are a challenge to get to bear fruit regularly, but I never have tried hard to do it either. I have only seen them grow in the eastern half of the country.

As a followup to a previous post, pawpaws are related to cherimoya, an amazing tasting fruit that I tried for the first time on a sea cruise last year. We had cherimoya in a Peruvian open air market. That market had an incredible variety of vegetables that I had not seen before. Cherimoya tastes like all the tropical fruits combined into one tasty package if you can imagine that. But it had large seeds like a pawpaw. I bet cherimoya would make an interesting wine. I do not recall a pawpaw being quite as tasty.

And on a related note, we also had the fermented drink of Peru, chicha morada. It is made from a giant eared purple corn, sort of like the size of hominy. And everywhere there was an ubiquitous liquor, pisco. I can't believe I had never heard of it because it is basically grape brandy primarily made from a grape variety Quebranta.

A very fun and tipsy cruise.

 

[BigDaveK]

I just learned two interesting facts:
1. Pawpaw trees are deer resistant
2. They can withstand cold temperatures

I wonder if I could plant some? What does the fruit taste like? Does it make good wine?

They taste like a custardy strawberry-banana-pineapple. Like everything else, there's a few varieties and some taste much better than others. Very perishable. You might find them in a farmer's market.

Don't know about wine, darn it. My trees won't cooperate. The flowers are very cold sensitive and just one night close to freezing and they're history.

The deer ignore the tree. The fruit is a different matter. Whatever critters you have they'll be there.

 

[Raptor99]

The deer ignore the tree. The fruit is a different matter. Whatever critters you have they'll be there.

Hm.. we have a lot of squirrels...