Mosti Mondiale MM Barolo With AllGrape Pack

[vinividivici]

Geez, what's wrong with 18% ABV????

A gallon of warm water is going in now, maybe more...

 

[Rocky]

Bob, please go slow on adding the water. Just roughly, I would estimate you need to add a volume that is equal to the volume of grape skins/raisins that you added. I would add a quart, mix it well, take the SG and repeat the process until you reach an SG that is more to what you want.

 

[vinividivici]

Bob, please go slow on adding the water. Just roughly, I would estimate you need to add a volume that is equal to the volume of grape skins/raisins that you added. I would add a quart, mix it well, take the SG and repeat the process until you reach an SG that is more to what you want.

I added a gallon of water, carefully and stirred it in gently. The new SG is now 1.080. I hope that's a reasonable starting SG for Barolo. And the gallon was roughly equivalent to the grape pack volume.

Thanks again to you and the other posters for your help tonight.

Bob

 

[Rocky]

Bob, when you got the SG 1.080, had fermentation started? I am a little concerned that you may have added too much water. If you ferment from 1.080 to something like 0.992, you will end up with an ABV in the 11.5-11.7% range, which to me would be slightly on the low side. If, on the other hand, it was already fermenting and you started with around 1.090, you would be closer to 13% when fermented to dry. Barolo's have a higher range of alcohol, usually a minimum of 13%, more typically above 14%. Just a thought.

 

[Wade E]

In my opinion you watered it down way too much. Big reds like this should be around 13% which would be a starting sg of around 1.112 or there abouts.

 

[vinividivici]

In my opinion you watered it down way too much. Big reds like this should be around 13% which would be a starting sg of around 1.112 or there abouts.

.

So my original SG of 1.130 wasn't too far off the mark? It would have been helpful if the instructions included a target SG and a profile of the wine being made. I haven't searched yet, but is there a chart on the site that has this?

Rocky,

The gallon of water brought the must up to the proper level and was also roughly the same volume as the grape pack. Fermentation hadn't started yet, but was apparently vigorous overnight as there was some must that cascaded down the sides of the bucket.

I punched down the cap this morning and will do the same tonight and twice a day until the first rack.

Will get another SG tomorrow at the 48 hour mark.

Thanks Guys,
Bob

 

[vinividivici]

To Rack or Not to Rack?

I took a daily SG reading this morning and it was 1.010.

The instructions with the kit say to do the first rack when the Sg gets below 1.040. Ordinarily I would follow the guide. But, there is still a good fermentation going with a lot of fizzing and bubbles.

I'm hesitant to rack while fermentation is still in progress. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[ibglowin]

Cellar Craft is now recommending taking their reds with grape packs down to 1.000 or less to maximize contact time with the juice and the skins. Snap the lid and add an airlock and let it go another day or so I say!

 

[robie]

I took a daily SG reading this morning and it was 1.010.

The instructions with the kit say to do the first rack when the Sg gets below 1.040. Ordinarily I would follow the guide. But, there is still a good fermentation going with a lot of fizzing and bubbles.

I'm hesitant to rack while fermentation is still in progress. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob

Many of us will let fermentation complete in the fermentor bucket. However, when the SG gets to the point where one would normally rack to a carboy, the bucket's lid must be sealed down and an air lock installed.

I you just want to wait a day or two, that won't be a problem, as long as fermentation is going really big. Just be mindful that once it slows, it must be protected from O2 by being sealed and under an air lock.

 

[vinividivici]

Okay, but I've been punching down the cap and stirring the must each day. So if I snap the lid and add the airlock, would I still stir and punch the cap down?

If you get close to the bucket, you can hear the fizz through the cap. Today is the fourth day of fermentation and no let up.

What I don't understand is that the instructions say to transfer everything, including the grape skins, when racking to the secondary. Why bother racking if you are transferring everything?

 

[ibglowin]

That makes no sense, why you would do that, be a mess to rack/clean. Just another reason to leave it in primary until dry. I usually just crack it open once a day (at the end), punch it down, gentle stir, reseal...... rinse, repeat until its finished, then squezze the crap out of the grape pack into the primary and transfer it all to the carboy. This is where the larger italian carboys come in handy as they can usually hold it all including the lees. If there is any left over I transfer that to a sanitized bottle or magnum and add an airlock to that as well. Then let it finish out for another 7-10 days, rack and combine the splits back into the carboy. Stabilize and fine.

 

[robie]

What I don't understand is that the instructions say to transfer everything, including the grape skins, when racking to the secondary. Why bother racking if you are transferring everything?

Good point. It is pretty hard to get a grape pack into a carboy, anyway.

Once the SG gets where yours is, you really don't need to open and stir the wine anymore. If you leave the grape pack in, do something to keep it submerged - a sanitized heavy glass tied to the pack or push it down with the spoon and trap the spoon down with the lid. A nice glass beer mug (or two) works well to hold it down.

 

[vinividivici]

Mike and Robie,

The Mosti Mondiale kit's grape pack is loose in the bucket. It's not contained in a pack that is floating in the must. It came in a box like the juice and had to be emptied into the primary. So the grape skins are free-floating and forming a cap all the time.

I've read on the forum threads that when doing a kit, you should follow the instructions to the letter as it will produce the best results. But I see, based on the responses to this thread, that I should be doing things differently. And I have absolutely no objection to that. I just don't want to muck up an expensive kit.

So, should I seal the bucket, add an airlock and stir gently once a day until the SG gets down to <= 1.000?

Re the grapes, the MM says to gather them up in cheesecloth (I will use a hop bag), squeeze the juice out and discard them on the second racking. I'll cross that bridge when it's time and get back with more questions.

FWIW, here's the link to the MM instructions (although it should show grape pack instead of raisins, but treated the same):

http://www.finevinewines.com/InstructionVNRERMEng&Fr.pdf

 

[ibglowin]

Yes, seal the bucket, you can open once a day to punch down, then when fermented to dry scoop them out and add to a strainer bag of sorts and squeeze all you can get out of it into the primary.

 

[vinividivici]

Yes, seal the bucket, you can open once a day to punch down, then when fermented to dry scoop them out and add to a strainer bag of sorts and squeeze all you can get out of it into the primary.

Thanks Mike. More questions to follow...

Bob

 

[tonyt]

Mike and Robie,

I've read on the forum threads that when doing a kit, you should follow the instructions to the letter as it will produce the best results. But I see, based on the responses to this thread, that I should be doing things differently.

hahaha that's what we don't tell you so OUR wine comes out better than YOURS. No, really I think the best approach for a first timer is to make an initial post prior to starting a kit that would go something like this. "Hi folks, I'm Tony and I am starting a wine Mosti Mondaile Renaissance wine kit. The the instructions are as follows, 1.2.3.4. What do y'all think?"

Then everyone would weigh in with their opinions which would often be "follow the instructions EXCEPT THAT I WOULD" and then you would see some obvious things like keep copious notes, use a mesh bag to contain the skins, and so on. At that point you would start with your own plan. Unfortunately we (me) don't post an actual question until AFTER we think we are at a dead end. There ought to be a Sticky in the Beginners forum suggesting to log in and say what your making before you start.

With all that said, I did didn't use a bag with my first skins kit either. It turned out great but was a bugger to rack. It turned out great. Logic seems to tell me that we would get better extraction with the skins floating free BUT I have never let them float but that first time. My wife said that if I was going to curse that much when making wine that I had to find another hobby.

 

[tonyt]

BTW, you know the Mosti high end kits take a long time to mature. Did you say if it was Renaissance, Masters, or Meglioli?

 

[robie]

Many of us have had serious problems trying to rack with all those grape skins floating around. It is near impossible unless you remove them first.

You can use cheese cloth or a sieve, or most anything to scoop them out. Trust me, you don't want to try and rack with them still in the wine.

That's why many of us will buy a cheap paint strainer bag or similar and put the grape skins in that.

 

[tonyt]

I now keep a supply of strainer bags from FVW. They're only a few bucks each.

 

[vinividivici]

BTW, you know the Mosti high end kits take a long time to mature. Did you say if it was Renaissance, Masters, or Meglioli?

Tony,

It was a Renaissance kit, and yes, I've read that these need a long time to age.

This isn't my first kit for wine making, but the first that had the grapes.

The SG yesterday as .992, so will be racking today. I plan on using a sanitized kitchen strainer to grab the skins and put them into a hop bag. Then squeeze the juice out into the secondary carboy.

The instructions say to transfer everything from the primary, including stirring up the lees . Then it says to add the yeast nutrient package that came the kit.

Thanks,
Bob