Limits of wines

[Wade E]

I have a few wines that are approaching 4 years old. I just finished the last bottle of Green Apple Riesling that was 2 1/2 years old and still tasted really good to me, even better in my opinion. This was corked with a 9 x 1 3/4 mediocre cork from my local store, nothing great. I must say that these wines can last longer then specified and backs up Smurf's theory of manufacturers wanting you to drink them and make more. They may just be covering theyre butt so the wines dont go bad but they should say age longer at your own risk and be suprised.

 

[wctisue]

Let's open this can of worms. How close to optimum storage conditions did you have this wine?


Last weekend I opened at WE Stag's Leap Merlot and a WE Woodbridge Ranch 11 that were from July/August of 2006 to have with our ribeyes. Two years should put these wines nearly in their prime andyet they seemed past their prime.If you open a bottle andleave part for a week -- that spoiled, off-nose, brownish hue. We did drink both bottles so it wasn't so bad you couldn't drink it but I was disappointed. In contrast, we have had 2 to 3 year old reds that have smoothed out quite nicely and were an absolute joy. I haven't found any consistency that cellaring kit-wine is worth the effort.


Both wines were in our 52-bottle wine coolers held at about 57*.


Tonight I'm enjoying a MM VN Merlot from April 2008. Strong, robust, with thegreatgrape taste I appreciate.


Wayne

 

[joeswine]

i believe that a kit wines should stay in realitily stable condition,depending on there viratel mix most whites only a few years ,there meant to drink young some reds longer , but its a kit meant to rebuy and they do make a good bottle of wine.

 

[grapeman]

Question for Wade here:
Buddy you have 8,795 - and a half bottles of wine in that there cellar of yours. If it only keeps for two or three years, How the heck much do you plan on drinking per day?

Seriously, I think most of the good to better quality kits can be cellared properly for about 5 years withou breakdown. I would drink up or give away the mist and similar inexpensive bottles before or shortly after two years.

 

[Aaronh]

<DIV id=ms__id914>From what I have read. Wines can be kept as long as how wellthe brewer made it. From what ive seen the rule of thumb is, the more expensive , the longer. Most major winerys that put out tons of cases every year wont have as much quality control compaired to wines like Ella.
<DIV id=ms__id917>
<DIV id=ms__id918>Other factors such as type of grape used, temp its stored at, is it a white or a red, tannin content, So2 at bottling exedera. Shiraz and shyra has been said to hold up tp 100 years. Below is a list of french wines taken from. http://www.terroir-france.com/theclub/cellar_keepwine.htm
<DIV id=ms__id915>
<DIV id=ms__id919>Also you have to take into consideration on when the peak age to drink a wine is at as well. I got my hands on some 2000 Barton&amp; Guestierchardonney from work that was in the cooler for 8 years. After taking the case home, inspecting the cork, pouring a glass, smelling for wet dog or basment smell and finnaly taking a PH test "3.3" it was kept well. It was rather flat at first but after sitting in the glass for 15 minutes the fruity flavors opened back up was wasnt as robust as a new chardonney. I liked the smooth balance from start tofinish and am rather happy with it. I am not a fan of whites though.
<DIV id=ms__id922>
<DIV id=ms__id921>This just some info off the top of a digg, short on time to spend a few hours compairing opnions but its a start i guess.

Unforonrntly these are just french wines, but should a give a ball park idea with the grape verity used.
<DIV id=ms__id916>
<DIV id=ms__id920>
<TABLE width="98%" align=center><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>French wine list</TD>
<TD vAlign=top></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top><A name=a></A>Alsace</TD>
<TD vAlign=top></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>ALSACE GEWURZTRAMINER
ALSACE PINOT OU KLEVNER
ALSACE RIESLING
ALSACE SYLVANER
ALSACE TOKAY-PINOT GRIS
CREMANT D'ALSACE</TD>
<TD vAlign=top>5 to 10 years
2 to 5 years
up to 5 years
up to 5 years
2 to 6 years
up to 5 years</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A name=b></A>Beaujolais
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/wine/wines_beaujolais.htm" target="_blank">BEAUJOLAIS
BEAUJOLAIS-VILLAGES
BROUILLY
CHENAS
CHIROUBLES
FLEURIE
JULIENAS
MORGON
MOULIN A VENT
REGNIE
SAINT-AMOUR</A>
</TD>
<TD vAlign=top>

drink now
2 to 5 years
2 to 8 years
2 to 8 years
2 to 8 years
2 to 8 years
2 to 8 years
up to 10 years
up to 10 years
2 to 8 years
2 to 8 years</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A name=c></A>Bordeaux
BARSAC
BORDEAUX
BORDEAUX SUPERIEUR
CANON-FRONSAC
COTES DE BOURG
COTES DE CASTILLON
COTES DE FRANCS
ENTRE-DEUX-MERS
FRONSAC
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/bordeaux_graves.htm" target="_blank">GRAVES Red
</A>GRAVES White
HAUT-MEDOC
LALANDE DE POMEROL
LISTRAC-MEDOC
MARGAUX
MEDOC
MOULIS EN MEDOC
PAUILLAC
PESSAC LEOGNAN Red
PESSAC LEOGNAN White
POMEROL
PREMIERES COTES DE BORDEAUX
SAINT-EMILION
SAINT-EMILION GRAND CRU
SAINT-EMILION GRAND CRU CLASSE
SAINT-ESTEPHE
SAINT-JULIEN
SAUTERNES
www.terroir-france.com </TD>
<TD vAlign=top>

more than 50 years
2 to 5 years
2 to 6 years
4 to 10 years
2 to 5 years
2 to 5 years
4 to 8 years
1 to 3 years
3 to 8 years
6 to 20 years
3 to 12 years
5 to 10 years and more
5 to 12 years
up to 10 years
5 to 25 years
5 to 10 years
3 to 8 years
10 to 25 years
6 to 20 years
5 to 15 years
10 years up to 20 years
3 to 7 years
3 to 8 years
5 to 12 years
15 to 25 years and more
5 to 30 years and more
10 to 15 years
5 to 35 years and more
</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A>Burgundy</A>
ALOXE-CORTON
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/burgundy_aoc.htm" target="_blank">BOURGOGNE Red
</A>BOURGOGNE White
BOURGOGNE ALIGOTE
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/burgundy_chablis.htm" target="_blank">CHABLIS
CHABLIS PREMIER CRU</A>
CHABLIS GRAND CRU
CHAMBERTIN
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/burgundy_chassagne.htm" target="_blank">CHASSAGNE-MONTRACHET Red
</A>CHASSAGNE-MONTRACHET White
CLOS DE VOUGEOT
CORTON
CORTON-CHARLEMAGNE
COTE DE BEAUNE Red
COTES DE BEAUNE White<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/burgundy_cotesnuits.htm" target="_blank">
COTE DE NUITS-VILLAGES</A>
GEVREY-CHAMBERTIN
GIVRY
LA TACHE
MAZIS-CHAMBERTIN
MEURSAULT
MONTRACHET
NUIT-SAINT-GEORGES
PETIT CHABLIS
POMMARD
POUILLY-FUISSE
RICHEBOURG
RULLY Red
RULLY White
VOLNAY
VOSNE-ROMANEE
VOUGEOT</TD>
<TD vAlign=top>

5 to 15 years
2 to 8 years
1 to 5 years
Drink now
2 to 5 years
3 to 7 years
5 to 12 years
7 to 25 years
3 to 10 years
5 to 20 years
10 to 15 years
10 to 20 years
10 to 20 years and more
2 to 5 years
2 to 4 years
3 to 5 years
5 to 25 years
3 to 7 years
5 to 15 years
7 to 25 years
3 to 15 years
see Chassagne Montrachet
5 to 20 years
1 to 3 years
5 to 15 years
2 to 6 years
5 to 15 years
3 to 5 years
2 to 5 years
3 to 15 years
5 to 15 years
up to 10 years</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A>Côtes du Rhône</A>
CHATEAU-GRILLET
CHATEAUNEUF-DU-PAPE
CONDRIEU
COTE ROTIE
COTES DU RHONE Red
COTES DU RHONE White
COTES DU RHONE Rosé
COTES DU RHONE-VILLAGES
COTES DU VENTOUX
CROZES-HERMITAGE
GIGONDAS
HERMITAGE
VACQUEYRAS </TD>
<TD vAlign=top>

5 to 15 years and more
5 to 20 years
2 to 4 years
8 to 15 years
2 to 5 years
1 to 3 years
drink now
2 to 6 years
1 to 3 years
2 to 6 years
3 to 12 years
10 to 20 years
5 to 10 years
www.terroir-france.com </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>



<A>Languedoc Roussillon</A>
CORBIERES
COSTIERES DE NIMES
COTEAUX DU LANGUEDOC
COTES DU ROUSSILLON
COTES DU ROUSSILLON-VILLAGES
FAUGERES
FITOU
MINERVOIS
SAINT-CHINIAN</TD>
<TD vAlign=top>




3 to 7 years
2 to 6 years
2 to 6 years
2 to 5 years
2 to 6 years
2 to 4 years
2 to 4 years
2 to 5 years
3 to 6 years</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A name=g></A>Loire
ANJOU Red
ANJOU White
ANJOU Rosé
BOURGUEIL
COTEAUX DU LAYON
MUSCADET
POUILLY-FUME
SAINT-NICOLAS-DE-BOURGUEIL
SANCERRE
SAUMUR Red
SAUMUR Dry White
TOURAINE Red
TOURAINE White
TOURAINE Rosé
VOUVRAY Sweet
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/loire_vouvray.htm" target="_blank">VOUVRAY Dry
VOUVRAY Semi-dry
VOUVRAY Sparkling</A></TD>
<TD vAlign=top>

2 to 6 years
1 to 3 years
now to 2 years
3 to 10 years
10 to 20 years
now to 2 years
1 to 5 years
2 to 5 years
1 to 5 years
2 to 8 years
1 to 3 years
2 to 7 years
1 to 4 years
now to 2 years
up to 100 years
5 to 25 years
now to 2 years
1 to 4 years </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>



<A name=h></A>Provence and Corsica
BANDOL Red
BELLET Red
BELLET White
BELLET Rosé
COTES DE PROVENCE

Corse :
AJACCIO
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/corsica_patrimonio.htm" target="_blank">PATRIMONIO Red
</A>PATRIMONIO White
PATRIMONIO Rosé </TD>
<TD vAlign=top>




4 to 8 years
up to 10 years
drink now
drink now
drink now


3 to 5 years
3 to 7 years
now to 3 years
now to 3 years</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<A name=i></A>South West
<a href="http://www.terroir-france.com/region/southwest_bergerac.htm" target="_blank">BERGERAC Red
BERGERAC White</A>
BERGERAC Rosé
BUZET
CAHORS
JURANCON
JURANCON SEC
MADIRAN
MONBAZILLAC</TD>
<TD vAlign=top>




2 to 4 years
drink now
drink now
3 to 8 years
3 to 10 years
5 to 20 years and more
2 to 4 years
4 to 8 years and more
5 to 30 years and more</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width=325>



<A name=j></A>Others

ARBOIS Yellow Wine
CHATEAU-CHALON
JURA Yellow Wine
MOSELLE / COTES DE TOUL
PINEAU DES CHARENTES
VIN DE SAVOIE
CHAMPAGNE var win=null;function MyWindow(mypage,myname,w,h,scroll,pos){var rndURL = (1000*Math.random());if(pos=="random"){LeftPosition=(screen.width)?Math.floor(Math.random()*(screen.width-w)):100;TopPosition=(screen.height)?Math.floor(Math.random()*((screen.height-h)-75)):100;}if(pos=="center"){LeftPosition=(screen.width)?(screen.width-w)/2:100;TopPosition=(screen.height)?(screen.height-h)/2:100;}else if((pos!="center" &amp;&amp; pos!="random") || pos==null){LeftPosition=0;TopPosition=20}settings='width='+w+',height='+h+',top='+TopPosition+',left='+LeftPosition+',scrollbars='+scroll+',location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes';win=window.open(mypage+'&amp;rndURL='+rndURL,myname,settings);if(win.focus){win.focus();}}function DoSearch(){var mbool = "AND";var mcase = "Insensitive";if(!document.cssearch.terms.value){ alert("Error. Please enter something to search for"); return false; }else{ var URL = "http://www.terroir-france.com/cgi-script/csSearchPro/csSearchPro.cgi?command=query&amp;terms="+escape(document.cssearch.terms.value)+"&amp;mbool="+mbool+"&amp;mcase="+mcase; if("checked"){ window.location=URL; } else{ MyWindow(URL,'query',600,400,'yes','center'); } return false; }} </TD>
<TD vAlign=top>





10 to 20 years
up to 20 years
10 to 15 years
up to 5 years
up to 20 years and more
1 to 3 years
drink young, some vintages can age 10 to 15 years </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>Edited by: Aaronh

 

[Wade E]

Wayne, I have pretty good cellaring conditions as i monitor the humidity which stays great for 3 months of the year at 65% and 58* but during the heat of the summer I have to use a dehumidifier to keep the humidity around 70%. If I bring it down anymore the heat from the dehumidifier raises the temp too much. During this time the temp stays around 66* or a tad higher.

 

[Aaronh]

<H2>Ice wine up too 100 years?! an exerpt from http://www.trulyfinewine.com/German-Wine-101_ep_25-1.html</H2>
<H2>Eiswein:</H2>




Translated as “Ice Wine,” a traditional ice wine only happens in rare years when the first frost, usually in December, will freeze the small portion of grapes that the vintner has left on the vine. Ice wine grapes have the minimum sugar level of a Beerenauslese, but must be unaffected by botrytis.


Ice wine is always a gamble for vintners, because they have to decide to leave grapes on the vine long after the regular harvest is finished.


They risk that the winter may not become cold enough for the harvest of an ice wine, which can only happen after several days of consistent, below freezing temperatures. If the temperature doesn't turn cold enough or does not stay consistently below freezing, the entire harvest is lost. However, in the rare years when a harvest occurs, the grapes are harvested by hand (wearing gloves, so the grapes won’t defrost) very early in the morning to avoid thawing temperatures. The grapes are pressed frozen, which means that very little water gets into the press, extracting a small quantity of highly concentrated juice. The resulting elixir creates a vibrant bond between sweetness and acidity that holds its own against the equally charismatic BAs and TBAs.


Other countries produce Ice Wine, but often by freezing the grapes in a commercial facility. For the German purist, this is heresy. The German Eiswein, sits alongside the Trockenbeerenauslese as the Königin (Queen) of the German dessert wines and a good ice wine can age for up to 100 years.Edited by: Aaronh

 

[geocorn]

I would plan on drinking most Winexpert wines in 1-5 years. They may last longer, but I don't have any first hand experience. I think the Mosti's will last longer, but considering how good they are at 1-3 years, I don't know if any will last than long.