Just curious- what makes a kit wine drinkable immediately vs one made from scratch (eg pressing the grapes)? Guessing the kit wine is at lower TA which makes it drinkable sooner but has less aging ability…. Am I on the right track? Anything else?
Kit wine vs “from scratch”
- Thread starter Pepperjack59
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Ignoring the Island Mist/ OrchardBreezing Wine cooler style low alcohol, high sweetness kits and those are drinkable so fast due to the low alcohol high sweetness and the non aging intent of them.
Wine made from scratch can be consumed shortly after making just the same as kits. I have consumed white wines and Rose wines, within a month or so of bottling and doing that at the 3-6 months after pitching yeast. However, they get better, if they sit for a bit longer, just like kit wines do.
I think the main reason folks think wine from kits can be consumed so soon has more to do with marketing and that marketing intended to get someone to buy the next kit wine as soon as possible than anything else.
Wine made from scratch can be consumed shortly after making just the same as kits. I have consumed white wines and Rose wines, within a month or so of bottling and doing that at the 3-6 months after pitching yeast. However, they get better, if they sit for a bit longer, just like kit wines do.
I think the main reason folks think wine from kits can be consumed so soon has more to do with marketing and that marketing intended to get someone to buy the next kit wine as soon as possible than anything else.
Tim Vandergrift (expert on modern kits) asserts that it is because kits have a lower level of dissolved solids: https://winemakermag.com/technique/550-picking-the-right-kit-wine-kits
Both Craig and Paul are correct. Some reason are technical while others are social and/or psychological.
Consider the levels of kits, e.g., WE has Classic, Reserve, and Private Reserve lines. Each step up takes longer to make (4, 6, 8 weeks) and the recommendation for aging is longer. The higher level the kit, the more "oomph" in it, e.g., ABV, body, tannin, acid, and/or sugar. These all increase aging requirements and extend shelf life.
Consider the levels of kits, e.g., WE has Classic, Reserve, and Private Reserve lines. Each step up takes longer to make (4, 6, 8 weeks) and the recommendation for aging is longer. The higher level the kit, the more "oomph" in it, e.g., ABV, body, tannin, acid, and/or sugar. These all increase aging requirements and extend shelf life.
BernardSmith
Senior Member
While there may be technical reasons to enable kits to be drunk after a few weeks or months, I have to agree with the others who suggest that the more significant reason comes from the marketing departments of the kit manufacturers. They are very dependent on customers buying a next kit not simply after they have just emptied a carboy but after they have cracked open a bottle and tasted the work they put into making the first kit. If that green wine does not taste good enough to drink, you can be sure that novice winemakers who are cutting their teeth on kits are unlikely to be buying another kit. And to expect novice wine makers to wait 12 months or more before they uncork a bottle is to expect delayed gratification in a society and culture that views everything as immediate and instant. Sure, if you have a "pipeline" of wines because you have been making wine for a year or more, there is no sense of an endless wait to see if what you made is OK (kit makers don't seem to suggest that the wine maker tastes as they go). So, IMO, it's the marriage of marketing and the production of drinkable wines after a month or two or three that enables kit makers to stay in business.
In some places, fresh wine is perfectly drinkable and accessible. For instance, in Germany, in the fall you can easily buy young white that is still in the late stages of fermentation, i.e. still bubbling like champagne. They bake an onion bread loaf and drink the wine with the onion bread, which helps with the gastric issues from drinking fermenting wine. I've had both at my SIL house and enjoy them.
I agree with you. We’ve made plenty of kits and from what I see they age the same way as wine made from scratch. I’ve done considerable about of research lately on the topic of wine kits vs scratch and I found to pretty much ignore any post or article made before 2017. I don’t know if people the kits just weren’t made as well before then but now they are just as good a scratch wine or even better. Just look at the wine makers mag international conference results. Kits beat out most scratch grapes.
Howdy @Tripled92 ,, and welcome to WMT.
I think it's really about an individual's palate and/or how deeply they want to get involved in the hobby. Kits have their advantages such as they require only minimal equipment, can be made anytime of the year and are great for someone getting their feet wet in the hobby. However it's not quite that simple since kits are of varying qualities.
I've not made a kit since my first year in making wine so I had to look at the current pricing. From what I find, and I'm sure there are sales to take advantage of, kits range from just over $100.00 to just under $300.00. If I were to pay $1.75 per lb for grapes which is slightly above average, it would cost me under $200.00 to make over 6 gallons, probably closer to 7 gallons depending on the varietal. A juice bucket if you have a source is under $70.00 but is typically seasonal. Both grape and juice bucket wines are economical but do require differing amounts of equipment and supplies.
In my opinion processing the juice for white wines is similar for grape, juice buckets or kits. The grapes are crushed and pressed to extract the juice. I'm not exactly sure the process for concentrating the juice for kits is so I can't comment on that. However, should I press juice from white grapes it takes me over 100 lbs to get 6 gallons which is about $150.00 as opposed to $70.00 for the juice bucket. I realize a commercial operation is probably more efficient than mine at extracting juice but not over twice as efficient so I have to question if it is all juice and not watered down. Now the explanation could be warehousing and shipping though they both require refrigeration and I have never had a juice bucket that hadn't already starting fermenting.
I'm sure there are techniques for processing red grapes which I don't know about. I just can't wrap my head around how they can get the color, tannins, phenols, etc. from a quick press and processing with maceration. Although reds from grapes do yield a higher volume when I ferment them it is still not to the volume per lb as a juice bucket. Plus, whether red or white, why do juice bucket producers insist on adding yeast in the first place.
Now more specific to kits. Again, for whites the process is similar and although I don't do them I would think they would be close to wines made from grapes. Most all commercial reds go through MLF which evidently kits can't or are not supposed to go through because they are balanced. But what are they balancing and to whose palate. Is it acid to alcohol, sugar to acid, alcohol to sugar or a combination of all. Plus not going through MFL there is a high content of malic and no lactic which will not have the same characteristics of a commercial wine and in my opinion contributes to the kit taste. In most posts I read it appears kit taste is not as noticeable in white kit wine which in the commercial world does not typically go through MLF.
Again palates are different so it's a matter of what you like. It's fairly common knowledge people new to wine prefer a sweeter wine. Whites are less tannic than reds so this could be why some prefer whites over reds. There are so many variables so the important thing is to make what you like.
I've not made a kit since my first year in making wine so I had to look at the current pricing. From what I find, and I'm sure there are sales to take advantage of, kits range from just over $100.00 to just under $300.00. If I were to pay $1.75 per lb for grapes which is slightly above average, it would cost me under $200.00 to make over 6 gallons, probably closer to 7 gallons depending on the varietal. A juice bucket if you have a source is under $70.00 but is typically seasonal. Both grape and juice bucket wines are economical but do require differing amounts of equipment and supplies.
In my opinion processing the juice for white wines is similar for grape, juice buckets or kits. The grapes are crushed and pressed to extract the juice. I'm not exactly sure the process for concentrating the juice for kits is so I can't comment on that. However, should I press juice from white grapes it takes me over 100 lbs to get 6 gallons which is about $150.00 as opposed to $70.00 for the juice bucket. I realize a commercial operation is probably more efficient than mine at extracting juice but not over twice as efficient so I have to question if it is all juice and not watered down. Now the explanation could be warehousing and shipping though they both require refrigeration and I have never had a juice bucket that hadn't already starting fermenting.
I'm sure there are techniques for processing red grapes which I don't know about. I just can't wrap my head around how they can get the color, tannins, phenols, etc. from a quick press and processing with maceration. Although reds from grapes do yield a higher volume when I ferment them it is still not to the volume per lb as a juice bucket. Plus, whether red or white, why do juice bucket producers insist on adding yeast in the first place.
Now more specific to kits. Again, for whites the process is similar and although I don't do them I would think they would be close to wines made from grapes. Most all commercial reds go through MLF which evidently kits can't or are not supposed to go through because they are balanced. But what are they balancing and to whose palate. Is it acid to alcohol, sugar to acid, alcohol to sugar or a combination of all. Plus not going through MFL there is a high content of malic and no lactic which will not have the same characteristics of a commercial wine and in my opinion contributes to the kit taste. In most posts I read it appears kit taste is not as noticeable in white kit wine which in the commercial world does not typically go through MLF.
Again palates are different so it's a matter of what you like. It's fairly common knowledge people new to wine prefer a sweeter wine. Whites are less tannic than reds so this could be why some prefer whites over reds. There are so many variables so the important thing is to make what you like.
That is a good question. My guess is maceration between crushing and pressing, and probably the use of enzymes.
Last fall I purchased 2 buckets of Sangiovese, which was fermented with the pomace of 20 lugs of grapes (CS, CF, Merlot). The juice was in very good shape, and the resulting wine is pleasing so far. We'll repeat the experiment this fall.
I'm curious how the red juice would differ from the juice fermented with pomace, but not enough to actually make a carboy of it.
Ohio Bob
Senior Member
I think you have a totally opposite selection of vendors than I do. I’ve never seen a juice bucket that was already fermenting, let alone pre-inoculated with yeast.
I agree that red juice buckets must take extra processing to get the color after crushing/maceration. That being said, my red juice buckets tend to make light color, not very tannic wines. My Riesling is spot on, very good. As good as commercial.
I agree that red juice buckets must take extra processing to get the color after crushing/maceration. That being said, my red juice buckets tend to make light color, not very tannic wines. My Riesling is spot on, very good. As good as commercial.
Thank you! I’m glad to be here!
