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[AspiringDakini]

Hello. This is the first time I have ever made wine. I am making elderberry and some damson wine. I was told that I could use ordinary baking dry active yeast so that is what I used. I put it all in as instructed and it bubbled for 1 day, then stopped... so I siphoned it, gently reheated it, added more dry active yeast and sugar to my taste, then poured it back into the demijohns. They are in a nice warm place bubbling away lovely now. I want a strong wine. I have been doing research and I am now learning that the wine or champagne yeast will make the wine stronger because the dry active yeast isn't made to survive the stronger alcohol. I have 8 demijohns full of wine so I don't want to throw them out but I don't want them to be weak. I would like a 15-20% alcohol. I want to make them as strong as possible. They have plenty of sugar in them as I like my wine to be sweet. Could I add some champagne or wine yeast to it now to make it stronger or is it too late? Will it spoil the wine or ruin the flavor because I have already added ordinary dry active yeast to it twice already? Please help! Thank you!!!! <3

 

[Julie]

You knowvpyou kill the flavor when you go too high in alcohol. You need to take a hydrometer reading when you first start, this should be around 1.080 and it would be a good idea to check your ph and TA. Actually what is your recipe?

And welcome to winemakingtalk

 

[AspiringDakini]

My recipe was fresh fruit (juiced), sugar, water and dry active yeast. My mother in law showed me how to make it as she has been making it this way for years. I would just like to make mine a bit stronger. My exact recipe is hard to say exact amounts because I added sugar to my taste. It is probably around equal parts of fruit to sugar (probably a bit more sugar). 3 heaping TBSP. of yeast per demijohn in total.

 

[AspiringDakini]

https://www.brew2bottle.co.uk/gervin-yeast-gv4-high-alcohol-and-restart-yeast.html?gclid=CM6Chtn_kMgCFSTmwgod3hMFWQ

Would it be okay to sprinkle this into each demijohn to make it a bit stronger?

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Aspiringdakini - and welcome to this forum. You say you want to make wine but you want the wine to be between 15 and 20 % alcohol by volume ... Wine is more usually around 12-14% and the key element of wine is flavor rather than alcohol content. You can ferment fruit to about 12 % but if you really want to make that wine stronger - you could add vodka or some other spirit.

Bread yeasts can get close to 12% but they are designed to make bread not wine so bread yeast won't bring out the flavors that wine yeasts can. I guess champagne yeast will ferment to about 12-14% too but champagne yeast is also not designed to bring out the best flavors from fruit. Can you now add a wine yeast to the carboys? I guess you could but champagne yeast is usually very aggressive and it does not play well with other yeasts - It is likely to produce an environment that will weaken and kill the first yeasts you added...
Bottom line - It is hard to imagine that you will make a drinkable wine if your aim is not flavor but alcohol content. Most members of this forum aim for about 12 or 13% (a starting gravity of about 1.090) . When you start with excessive amounts of sugar that can kill the yeast as excessive concentrations of sugar can damage the cells of the yeast because of the way the yeast ferments
What fruit are you fermenting? How much fruit are you fermenting?

 

[AspiringDakini]

When I tasted what I have fermenting now, it tasted very weak. Like fruit juice basically. I want something a bit stronger than that. I was hoping for a bit of strength and flavor. A rough estimate of my recipe would be 2 litres of juice from fresh fruit (elderberry and Damsons), equal parts of water and sugar to taste. Approximately 3 heaping TBSP of dry active yeast mixed with warm water to activate it. This is per each demijohn.

Do you think it would be okay to heat my wine a bit then sprinkle some of this over the top of what I have made to make it stronger or should I just leave it? https://www.brew2bottle.co.uk/gervin-yeast-gv4-high-alcohol-and-restart-yeast.html?gclid=CM6Chtn_kMgCFSTmwgod3hMFWQ

Any help is very much appreciated.

 

[rodo]

Here is a link to another members site about Elderberry wine. I have learned much from it and consider him to be an expert on the subject.

http://www.wvmjack.com/Elderberries/ElderberriesWine.html

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that, yes, you can add the yeast you link to or Champagne yeast to your wine, and ferment it more. It is not really possible to say more than that without knowing how much sugar you added to how much liquid. "To taste" does not really tell us anything.

To make any sense of this process, you MUST obtain a hydrometer (available for ~$7). This measures the specific gravity (SG) of the juice, which tells you how much sugar is in the juice. When you start, the SG will be something like 1.080 to 1.100. As the wine ferments, the SG will become lower as the yeast eat up the sugar. If the yeast can eat all the sugar, the final SG will be something like 0.990 to 0.995. And it will not be sweet at this point.

 

[AspiringDakini]

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that, yes, you can add the yeast you link to or Champagne yeast to your wine, and ferment it more. It is not really possible to say more than that without knowing how much sugar you added to how much liquid. "To taste" does not really tell us anything.

To make any sense of this process, you MUST obtain a hydrometer (available for ~$7). This measures the specific gravity (SG) of the juice, which tells you how much sugar is in the juice. When you start, the SG will be something like 1.080 to 1.100. As the wine ferments, the SG will become lower as the yeast eat up the sugar. If the yeast can eat all the sugar, the final SG will be something like 0.990 to 0.995. And it will not be sweet at this point.

Thank you!

 

[Arne]

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that, yes, you can add the yeast you link to or Champagne yeast to your wine, and ferment it more. It is not really possible to say more than that without knowing how much sugar you added to how much liquid. "To taste" does not really tell us anything.

To make any sense of this process, you MUST obtain a hydrometer (available for ~$7). This measures the specific gravity (SG) of the juice, which tells you how much sugar is in the juice. When you start, the SG will be something like 1.080 to 1.100. As the wine ferments, the SG will become lower as the yeast eat up the sugar. If the yeast can eat all the sugar, the final SG will be something like 0.990 to 0.995. And it will not be sweet at this point.

If you want it sweet after this, you should stabalize the wine (add potassium sorbate and potassium sulfite), and now you can sweeten it back. Add sugar to taste and it should not referment. Arne.

 

[BernardSmith]

The other issue is this. You took some fruit juice, added ("pitched" is the favored word for this) yeast and then you tasted the liquor. But you don't really know if the yeast converted 1 percent of the sugar to alcohol or 100 percent so if the wine tastes like fruit juice that may be because it is still fruit juice. You really need to provide information such as the specific gravity of the must (that is the term for fruit juice before yeast is pitched) before you pitched the yeast, the specific gravity at the point when you are asking the question, the temperature of the room where you are fermenting the fruit. -
As an FYI - one pound of sugar in solution to make one gallon will raise the gravity by .040. Two pounds will raise the gravity by .080 (Julie's post to you). Fruit, other than wine grapes, in my experience typically has enough sugar to provide a gravity reading of about 1.050 (the gravity reading of pure water is 1.000) - which is what a hard apple cider typically starts with (the final gravity might be 0.996 or lower and that will be around 6.5% ABV (that's about twice what most beers are - and a wine is about double the alcohol by volume of a typical cider) - but the issue is always the flavor- alcohol level balance- The more flavor the wine has , the more it can support more alcohol... but IMO, there is a limit beyond which all you are drinking is rocket fuel.

 

[AspiringDakini]

If you want it sweet after this, you should stabalize the wine (add potassium sorbate and potassium sulfite), and now you can sweeten it back. Add sugar to taste and it should not referment. Arne.

Thank you for that! You have been most helpful.

I have decided just to fortify that wine with some brandy and left over freeze distilled wine alcohol to up the alcohol content and make it (hopefully) like a port wine rather than adding the other yeast mentioned. I will add the alcohol, a campden tablet and some potassium sorbate when it has stopped bubbling, then rack it. I also got a hydrometer to help with the next batch .

 

[PierreR]

Typically you dont start fermenting in a demijohn. Most start in a primary fermenter. A food grade pail, or a commercial primary, loosely covered, allowing it to breath. Once the initial vigorous fermentation has slowed, then the must is racked into a secondary. Your demijohn, with bung and airlock, and left to finish fermenting. Along the way, you need to take and record specific gravity, dates etc. Then is the stabilizing, clearing, fortifying if you must, and bottling.

I dont know why you are returning to a pot, and needing to add more yeast...

As mentioned, you need to get your starting specific gravity. "TO TASTE" does not work. Use proper methods, equipment, and recipes. I am new here, but am not new to wine making. There are many tried and proven recipes on line, and this site. Use the search function, it can be your friend... Slow down, do it clean and correct, by the numbers. Wine recipes are more like a formula, if you do it by the book, you can expect consistent results. By taste? What happens if you just ate a chocolate bar, and your taste buds are used to sweet? Do you over sweeten? Or its a hot day, your thirsty, craving salt, the smallest bit of sweet will seem too much. You have a hydrometer now, use it. Find recipes that state what numbers to aim for, follow the procedure, and make good wine.

I see nothing wrong with your ingredients. Personally I wouldn't boil the juice, it will affect flavor. If your goal is sterilization, use the proper amount of campden tablets, usually mentioned in a reliable recipe.

Good luck!

 

[AspiringDakini]

Typically you dont start fermenting in a demijohn. Most start in a primary fermenter. A food grade pail, or a commercial primary, loosely covered, allowing it to breath. Once the initial vigorous fermentation has slowed, then the must is racked into a secondary. Your demijohn, with bung and airlock, and left to finish fermenting. Along the way, you need to take and record specific gravity, dates etc. Then is the stabilizing, clearing, fortifying if you must, and bottling.

I dont know why you are returning to a pot, and needing to add more yeast...

As mentioned, you need to get your starting specific gravity. "TO TASTE" does not work. Use proper methods, equipment, and recipes. I am new here, but am not new to wine making. There are many tried and proven recipes on line, and this site. Use the search function, it can be your friend... Slow down, do it clean and correct, by the numbers. Wine recipes are more like a formula, if you do it by the book, you can expect consistent results. By taste? What happens if you just ate a chocolate bar, and your taste buds are used to sweet? Do you over sweeten? Or its a hot day, your thirsty, craving salt, the smallest bit of sweet will seem too much. You have a hydrometer now, use it. Find recipes that state what numbers to aim for, follow the procedure, and make good wine.

I see nothing wrong with your ingredients. Personally I wouldn't boil the juice, it will affect flavor. If your goal is sterilization, use the proper amount of campden tablets, usually mentioned in a reliable recipe.

Good luck!

Thank you PierreR.

 

[PierreR]

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2&order=asc&page=2
start reading here

 

[AspiringDakini]

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2&order=asc&page=2
start reading here

With these elderberry and damson wines, I have decided to fortify them with brandy to make them like a sherry when they have finished fermenting so I have the answers I was seeking now to my first question. Thank you for all of your help. I do have a second question...

I have not added any Pectolase to these yet. I am finding conflicting answers on the web on whether or not it is a good idea to add it after fermentation. They will soon be ready to start racking and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to help the wine to clear by adding pectolase when I start to rack them? If so, would I use the normal amount (1 tsp. per gallon) or would I need to use more than usual? Or is adding pectolase at this stage a waste of ingredients and unnecessary? Thank you.

 

[AspiringDakini]