Help - total disaster!

[fackler rebel]

Due to my location, I can only get bottled unpasturized, I think, white grape juice. I used this as a base in another country that has camels and from the time I put in down until it went into the bottle was about 6 or 7 weeks and the finished product had a nice golden color, clear as a bell, and was just a wee bit on the sweet side of dry. I put down a batch here right around Thanksgiving, using LALVIN 71B-1122. The finished product is very sweet, similar to a German Spatlese, but WILL NOT CLEAR, and this is after several rackings. I am a amateur at this even though I made a very good wine and fairly good dark beer in Saudi Arabia. I suspect I have used the wrong type of yeast. Can anybody out there help this American guy stuck in the desert?

 

[Waldo]

Correct me if I am wrong rebel but if i AM UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THIS BATCH WAS STARTED AROUND tHANKSGIVING. Has finished fermenting, been racked several times and you think the wrong yeast may have been used is what is prohibiting it from clearing.


First, I don't believe the type yeast used has any impact on how a wine clears. I could be wrong here. Second, It might possibly be that you are racking too quickly, not giving the sediment suspended in the winetime enough time to settle out and compact. I have learned thata good stong dose of patience works about as well as anything to clear a wine. In your location I would suppose that commercial clearinhg agents are abourt as scarce as hens teeth...one you might have avaliable though is egg whites..never used them myself but I understand they work pretty well.

 

[Wade E]

Ive never heard of yeast causing the problem of a wine not clearing. There are a few things that could clear this and without knowing exactly what the recipe was and some other factors of this wine it will be hard to narrow down. I would try as Waldo says and give it a little more time to settle out, cooler temps will help this so if you can fit this in a fridge that would speed things up fast. After that I would try a fining agent called SuperKleer if you can get it. If tat doesnt do it then you either have a pectin haze which cn be rectified with pectic enzyme. If thats not i then it might be a protein haze in which you will need bentonite to settle it out.

 

[smurfe]

I don't think you used the wrong type of yeast. Is there any way you can give us some more details? Starting and finished SG, temps during primary, secondary, and clearing?


My best "guesstimation" if the wine is "very" sweet is that you had a stuck fermentation and still have basically grape juice or a very low alcohol content wine. You should have some residual sweetness from use of this yeast but IMHO not a super sweet wine.


If we knew your starting and ending SG we could get an idea if the wine didn't ferment correctly which could attribute to your non-clearing wine as it could be a protein haze or oxidation just for a couple examples.


High temperatures could attribute to this as well as the yeast could of burned themselves up before their job was done. Hopefully you can pass along some more details and we can give you some areas to look into.

 

[fackler rebel]

Look folks, this is not my first rodeo. I did this in Saudi with the same grape juice, white, and the same amount of sugar, with the basically the same temp's, the only variable being the yeast, I mentioned in the first post. I am at a loss here. I have racked it three times, and it is still cloudy after nearly three months and waaaaay sweeter than my other batch in Saudi, with the same juice, just different yeast, even used the same sugar. I practice cleanliness is next to godliness, so I don't think that is it. Does anybody have info on that yeast?


thanks


Reb

 

[jobe05]

<table style="width: 608px; height: 807px;" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
<t>
<tr>
<th>Company</th>
<th>Yeast Name</th>
<th>Dry or Liquid</th>
<th>Strain Number</th>
<th>Suggested Wine Styles</th>
<th>Temp Range (°F)</th>
<th>Alcohol Tolerance (% ABV)/Flocculation</th></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Lalvin</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">ICV D-47</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">1080-02</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry White, Blush, Sweet Mead

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">50-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">14% Medium</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Lalvin</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">BOURGOVIN RC 212</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">1105-02</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Young Reds, Aged Reds

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">14% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Lalvin</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">71-B</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">1022-02</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Blush, Whites, Nouveau, Young Reds, Juice from Concentrates

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">14% Medium</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Lalvin</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">KIV-1116</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">1016-02</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Stuck Fermentations, Cider

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">18% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Lalvin</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">EC-1118</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">1018-02</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Champagne, Dry Meads, Secondary-Stuck Ferment, Late Harvest</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">45-95°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">18% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Pasteur Red</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#904</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Cabernet, Syrah, Pinot, Merlot, Gamay, Zin, Berry and Cherry Wine

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">64-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">16% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Montrachet</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#522</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Merlot, Chard, Zinfandel, Syrah

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">13% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Côte des Blancs</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#750</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Blush Wines, Sparkling Cuvée, Riesling, Chard, Cider

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">64-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">12-14% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Pasteur Champagne</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#595</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry White, Cabernet, Port, Cider, Mead, Fruits

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">13-15% Medium-Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Premier Curvée</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#796</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Anything but residual-sugar wines

<center>-----------------</center></font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">45-95°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">18% Low</font></td></tr>
<tr>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Red Star</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Flor Sherry</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Dry</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">Davis#519</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">Sherry (primary and secondary fermentation)</font></td>
<td ="#e6e7e8">59-86°</font></td>
<td ="#c6c8ca">18-20% Low</font></td></tr></t></table>

 

[Wade E]

Fackler, we're not saying that you are an unexperienced wine maker but it is not the yeast that did this as I have used this yeast a few times and others use it with their country wines with great results. What was your starting SG and what is it at now and is it stable so that we can figure this out. Please show us the recipe, did you use pectic enzyme in the beginning as wines from fruit or fruit juice really needs it. Im betting you have a pectin haze although not sure why it is sweet as the yeast you specify here has a tolerance of 18%.

 

[jobe05]

Fackler:

Based on what you are describing, I would say that for some reason you just have a slow fermentation going there. The reason? Could be something in the must, an additive in the grape juice that was used (other countries may not have the labeling laws that we have), conditions the must is fermenting in or the yeast that was used and the age of that yeast.

As Waldo stated, there really hasn't been enough time or low enough SG to rack your wine 3 times, however with a slow fermentation, it didn't hurt it, it probably helped get air to the yeast, as long as you didn't leave to many of them behind during your rackings.

The lack of clearing is no doubt do to solids being suspended by CO2 gas that is still being produced by what yeast is working in there.

I would recommend trying another yeast package, either of te same yeast, or EC-1118 to get it going again. This time, instead of racking, stir it up , every day for a week or two, or till such time that you have driven off enough CO2 that the must will clear on it's own within a few hours.
Then let it sit till you are sure the SG has reached below .998 and is staying there, before racking again.

God luck, and let us know what you are doing.

What are you in Kuwait for?

 

[smurfe]

Look folks, this is not my first rodeo. I did this in Saudi with the same grape juice, white, and the same amount of sugar, with the basically the same temp's, the only variable being the yeast, I mentioned in the first post. I am at a loss here. I have racked it three times, and it is still cloudy after nearly three months and waaaaay sweeter than my other batch in Saudi, with the same juice, just different yeast, even used the same sugar. I practice cleanliness is next to godliness, so I don't think that is it. Does anybody have info on that yeast?


thanks


Reb

This isn't my first rodeo either. Post some stats on your batch and I am sure we can help you out. I still am leaning toward a stuck fermentation or a bad packet of yeast if your wine/juice is still very sweet. It sounds like little to no fermentation occurred. If we know the starting and finished gravity that will give us a big clue.


From what Iread that strain if yeast is quite appropriate for your intended use. As I believe Jobe said, their could of been sulfite's in the juice, particularly if it is not pasteurized. If the wine was fermented at higher temps, the yeast will burn up quickly and fail to convert the sugars to alcohol hence the very sweet wine. Racking isn't going to do any good to clearif there are other issues involved.

 

[joeswine]

I had this problem with a batch of naragra juice could'nt get to to clear

after almost a 9 month period tried every thing ,this wine is very accidict to start with ,I read about it and talked to someone who won an award at the winemakers event in las vagas and no help,then I used egg

whites .no good,then a combination of pectin emzine and supperkleer,whatI forgot to state was I had to backsweeten this wine with about ten lbs.of sugar(simple syurp).Well, after a while I saw a clearring ring at the top and after a month later saw a wonderious site clear as a

bell after a year and flavor that our award winner couldn't believe,some things take time and patients

Edited by: joeswine