Help me design my wine and save Hyrule from evil!

[chasemandingo]

Hey everyone,

I got it in my head to develop what I hope shall become my signature wine. The staple by which I judge all others and share readily with guests. I have decided on the name Triforce. I admittedly stole this from my favorite childhood game, The Legend of Zelda. Anyway, the wine will be a three way blend of cranberry, concord, and blueberry. I would like the fruitiness of the concord and blueberry to be balanced by a noticeable cranberry tartness. I would also like this wine to be oaked. I have access to 100% blueberry and cranberry juices and will use those. As for concord I might have to use Welch's concentrate. I figure 13.5 % ABV is good to shoot for. What ratio of juices would you use to achieve a wonderful wine that has elements of each ingredient, but as a whole tastes like none of them individually. Also, considering the ingredients what type of oak (French or American) and level of toast would you use? Thanks again everyone. And good luck questing for spiritual stones!

 

[dangerdave]

You are indeed very ambitious, Chase. Might I ask, what made you decide on this blend of flavors? I personally have no idea what a blend of these three flavors would taste like, do you?

Well, in that case, why not get some juice---one of each---and mix them up, just so you can see what they would taste like together. Mix in small quanities. Try different amounts of each. When you get the flavor you want, then you'll know what kind of flavor you are shooting for in your wine. In the end, it might be better to make a batch of each type of wine and blend those just like the juice. Otherwise, you'll just be guessing as to the outcome, because the must will not taste the same as the finished wine. For example: I have made blueberry wine. In the end, it does not taste like eating fresh blueberries. While concord grapes tend to hold onto their individual flavor even after fermentation. Cranberry is a mistery to me...

Just some things to think about. Looks like you have some decisions to make and some risks to take before evil is expelled from Hyrule.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I agree with Dave, you need to test a blend to see if you like what you have, maybe different percentages of each until you come up with a blend that you love, now that said, the blended juice and the fermented wine may be two different "animals" so to speak, I would aim for a lower ABV%, maybe start with an 11% at first, country or fruit wines seem to get stripped of flavors as the ABV% increases, not to mention what the various yeast may or many not impart to your wine. You may need to make several 1 gallon batches with different yeast and different types and levels of oak.
It is a very ambitious plan to say the least, but it is very exciting! I would highly recommend using Dave's Dragon Blood recipe as a template, it allows you to manipulate it to your tastes and preferences, from there, you can try what ever you can think of!
I will be very interested to see your progress, when you finally make that one batch that you feel will be "the One", you will know that your wine will be unique and your own!
If I can make one suggestion, write everything down, every little piece of info and detail, you want to know what you did, or didn't do to make the wine and be able to reproduce it!
Keep us updated!

 

[dangerdave]

Very good points, Tom. To maintain flavor, the ABV would need to be lower. Yeast choice would also be an issue. I have not used the DB recipe for cranberry, but the concord and blueberry are excellent! But it would allow for a fast turn around, even in small batches.

Note to self: try a cranberry version!

You better get started. It may take some time to get it right!

What's your first move?

 

[chasemandingo]

Well, I have considered making a batch of each wine and blending them. However, I would prefer to be able to mix up the ingredients in the primary and pitch the yeast. I think I will end up blending different quantities of the juices in small cups and sample to determine the best ratio. As for oak I think American medium toast oak cubes would suffice. I may cut the ABV a little but would still like a good drinker. And remember age can cure a lot when it comes to wine. I am wanting a wine that ages out really well so waiting a year for the flavors to mingle and alcohol burn to dissipate wont be an issue for me. I will take exacting notes so that I will be able to reproduce this one. I figure a nice slow primary fermentation at around 60-65 degrees would help maintain flavors and promote fruity ester production. What strain of yeast would you recommend? I have a few in mind but would like to hear some opinions!

 

[BernardSmith]

I agree with the previous posts. I think what you are looking for is an off the shelf answer to a question that only you can know the answer to, and the only way to know the answer is to experiment. Take the three juices you want to blend and with different percentages mix them and see which you prefer. Then make a few gallon batches of these and ferment each using different yeasts. Find the blend and yeast combo you prefer and then try different oaks.. There is no way of knowing in advance what will be the killer version. There may be alternative ways of getting an answer to your question but my imagination is very limited... Me? When there are a large number of variables I tend to hold every variable constant and change one at a time and try the result and then hold that constant and fixed and change one other element and so on and so on until I have gone through each variable. This may be a long term project that could take two or three years to complete but it seems to me that even "failures" in this context can offer you and your friends much pleasure and joy...

 

[Julie]

As stated before, keep the ABV below 12% and I think I would use Lavlin 71B 1122. In a glass mix 40% concord, 30% blueberry, 30% cranberry and see how that tastes as a juice.

 

[seth8530]

I am pretty much with the rest of the camp, I would recommend making 5 gallon batches of each wine and then blending them together at the end ( mmm lots of wine).. However, my gut feeling says that something like 50%BB 30% concord and say 20% cranberry would be a good starting point. The reason why I suggest this is because I ended up adding 1 gallon of cranberry juice to 4 gallons of mead and it completely changed the flavour and colour of the whole batch. Pure cranberry juice is quite the flavour.. Also, I would keep the ABV at or below 12% as others have mentioned.

However, in the end the blending is all up to you.

 

[tkmorgan]

Because the triforce is gold-colored and it is supposed to restore light (or something), I would think a white wine would be better for that purpose. Like maybe a skeeter pee with citrus and tropical fruits. And since we are talking about something meant to be obtained by a five year old, it may be fitting to have an abv of 12 or lower...Just my opinion.

But your idea would sound good if you wanted to make a Gannon-themed wine or a red "potion", however.

Also, when you make the label, if you really want to put some time into it and exercise some photoshop skills, may I suggest having an ingredients section with a picture of the attached?

 

[chasemandingo]

Thanks for the input. I guess it is a question only I can answer. I will try to keep the ABV around 12. Even though it is tempting to go higher. Perhaps I'll make a high octane wine for the Ganon wine! My yeast choices are Montrachet, 71B, or RC 212. Will probably go with the 71B. I will start a one gallon batch soon and keep you updated. If only I could get some wood from the Great Deku Tree in Kokiri forest I would have the perfect oaking material! In terms of flavor I have read that a concord blueberry blend is very good and a concord cranberry is like lingon berry wine. So I figured a blend of all three would be good as well.

 

[tkmorgan]

Thanks for the input. I guess it is a question only I can answer. I will try to keep the ABV around 12. Even though it is tempting to go higher. Perhaps I'll make a high octane wine for the Ganon wine! My yeast choices are Montrachet, 71B, or RC 212. Will probably go with the 71B. I will start a one gallon batch soon and keep you updated. If only I could get some wood from the Great Deku Tree in Kokiri forest I would have the perfect oaking material! In terms of flavor I have read that a concord blueberry blend is very good and a concord cranberry is like lingon berry wine. So I figured a blend of all three would be good as well.

My wife and I made a batch of blueberry concord that we both loved. I can't remember the name of the book, but we got the recipe from the small purple booklet that LHBSes sell for around $3.50. I bought a 3 gallon carboy, doubled the recipe for a light bodied juice wine (using a 3 quart bottle of Welches grape juice) and combined it with a blueberry wine recipe. It was right up our alley, but we like sweet light bodied reds, and we've never tried oaking.
Of course most wine makers would have recommended that I make the two wines separately and then mix to have better control over the final blueberry to concord ratio, but I think it worked out, pretty well.

 

[Pumpkinman]

When there are a large number of variables I tend to hold every variable constant and change one at a time and try the result and then hold that constant and fixed and change one other element and so on and so on until I have gone through each variable.

BernardSmith - this is excellent info, and very important, if you change more than one variable at a time, it will be near impossible to know which one improved it or caused a flaw.
I can see this taking a bit of time considering the fermentation, possible MLF and aging time frames.
Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[LoveTheWine]

I love this wine theme. I used to play the Zelda series all the time and my 6 yr old daughter loves Zelda too!

 

[seth8530]

Honestly, if I was you I would be halfway tempted to make this wine with a mead as the base and then blend in the varying layers of these other 3 wins to make a Golden(mead) Triforce( 3 juices) blend.

 

[chasemandingo]

Very interesting stuff indeed! Please elaborate a little Seth. I have done three JAOM variants and have just made my first "real" mead. A apple pear melomel. I have no means to test pH yet (meter is in the mail) but I wanted to jump into a good melomel right away. I have seen some threads you have posted and know you make meads so how bout a crash course? (LOL) Also, what are your thoughts on MLF? Have never done it but sounds interesting.

 

[SPAF]

Use Red Star's Côte de Blancs yeast strain. It's very common I know, but I just used it with a blackberry/raspberry/blueberry melomel at 65°F, and I'm telling you: it ferments so cleanly and maintains the fruit integrity so well. Albeit at a lower ABV. Mine is only 11.5%.

 

[seth8530]

Very interesting stuff indeed! Please elaborate a little Seth. I have done three JAOM variants and have just made my first "real" mead. A apple pear melomel. I have no means to test pH yet (meter is in the mail) but I wanted to jump into a good melomel right away. I have seen some threads you have posted and know you make meads so how bout a crash course? (LOL) Also, what are your thoughts on MLF? Have never done it but sounds interesting.

PH meters are nice but not absolutely needed for wine making (TA tends to be a bit more important than PH) of course I am not saying PH does not matter.... The three major differences between making mead and wine that I have noticed are

A) cooler fermentations are almost always better

B) Adjust acid post ferment instead of upfront due to wild PH changes caused by the yeast as it ferments the honey

C) This one is the big one.. .Nutrients, as far as making wine honey is just about as good as sugar water is from a nutriental point of view. Thus, you need to supplement nearly all of the YAN that the yeast will need. So plan on supplementing around 320 mg/L YAN.

Also for a mead you do not want to soley use fermaid O since it does not have the all the minerals and vitamins the yeast needs that go ferm and Fermaid K have in them.. So either use a fermaid K/ Fermaid O regimen or use fermaid O and find a way to supplement the vitamin needs of the yeast.



What I was talking about as far as layering was either make a single batch of standard run of the mill mead ( with a nice honey) and then adding in the blueberry, cranberry and concord wines to your mead to get a good blend..

However, a spin on this would be fermenting a mead, then in the secondary adding in blueberry, concord and cranberry juice ( at the original gravity of the mead so as not to dilute the ABV) and hope it ferments back dry.




I recommend adding the fruit into the secondary since that seems to be all the rage in the mead community for people who want to keep the fruitiness of fruit additions for mead.

I am a believer in MLF. However, if you plan on going that route be aware that you will need to keep your wine dry else when you add the sorbate the ml bacteria can eat it and cause some bad flavours.. However, supposedly you can add lyzozomes to the wine to disable the ML bacteria and make it safe to add in sorbate.


BTW, good luck with the melomel!

 

[chasemandingo]

Well, I used one half gallon of fresh cider and one half gallon of 100 percent pear juice. I used two pounds of honey which ended up being too much . OG was 1.100 so I racked to secondary at 1.03 hoping it would stop at 1.00. Haven't had the guts to check the gravity again. Used d47 and did step feed nutrients and energizer. I'm guessing the nutrients from the juices were enough to meet the needs of my yeast. When I do make a straight mead I will need to get into the fermaid product line lol.

 

[seth8530]

yeah, if your abv ends up to high, you could always add in some juice into secondary to bring it down a bit.

 

[SPAF]

What style are you trying to achieve? If you add juice, ya you're ping to bring the ABV down, but you'll also get a sweeter style. If you want that, fine, but if you want something dryer then you don't want to add juice.

Another question: Seth, I see on a lot of other discussions that you often ferment fruits either separately or in secondary when making melomel. Why is that? Isn't it more efficient to ferment everything together at primary? What's the pros and cons in your perspective?